Bushmaster wrote:

So far with the .30-30 and the .30-06 I have found my load for each. Other then practice during the summer months leading up to hunting season, I will fire three fouling shots. Then it's off to the hunting grounds.

Same here, and its been working for me the last 40 years.

Bushmaster wrote:

I will fire three fouling shots. Then it's off to the hunting grounds.

I never take a cleaned rifle hunting. POI on a clean barrel has always been different for me than a barrel that has had a fouling shot sent down it.

The question is: Why would a fouled barrel shoot that different from a clean one?

MacD wrote:

Why would a fouled barrel shoot that different from a clean one?

It depends on your definition of different. My .270 shoots the first round an inch and a bit from the typical POI. At 100 yards that is not that significant. At 300+ yards it can be a factor. Just one more thing I don't want to have to consider. Take a clean bore out to the range and shoot a 4-shot group. See how far off the first one is from the others. Notice others shoot more than one fouling round before they take to the woods.

I fire the fouling shots because a clean barrel POI tends to not be POA. Besides I don't know many hunters that clean the rifles after and before each sighting in shot. Therefore most rifles are sighted in with a fouled barrel.

Besides...It's what I was taught by an old geezer years ago....

Sometimes the POI shift is due to not properly cleaning all the oils from the bore and chamber, sometimes it's just an inconsistent bore that needs "seasoning" before getting serious !!!

I mostly use Shooters Choice Quickscrub to prep a rifle for shooting.

Would a 63 year old barrel be "seasoned" enough? Before any bullet goes down my barrels I scrub them with dry patches including the chamber.

I'be been using Hoppe's for cleaning and ATF for lube and preserving for many years. Let's see...When did they come out with ATF?

Bushmaster wrote:

Would a 63 year old barrel be "seasoned" enough? Before any bullet goes down my barrels I scrub them with dry patches including the chamber. I'be been using Hoppe's for cleaning and ATF for lube and preserving for many years. Let's see...When did they come out with ATF?

Ford or GM???? Ford would have been whale oil based. You're giving up your age too easily. No wonder we are always on that last nerve of yours. LMAO

slimjim wrote:

Aloysius wrote: On the other hand: our hunting insurance is still very cheap, Aloys, I always look forward and enjoy reading your posts! I don't know what to expect. So you have to have hunting insurance???

I am lucky...I belong to the Sporting Shooters Association and they provide us with $10M of public liability insurance for any firearm related activity.

I like both 3 shot and 5 shot groups...but Chambered hit it when he said 1 shot from a cold barrel, which is how it is when out hunting. You have to know where that 1st shot is gonna go, and that it goes where you want it to go.

Cheers, Vince

With my 25/06 due to its current predilection to play shotgun after 2-3 shots, I either take all day to shoot a 5 shot group or confirm its POI and just run a oily patch through it. Clean it correctly and it wants 15 foulers to start co-operating again. Did I mention a new barrel has been threatened at it, with NO positive results.

With my CZ .22 I'm playing 5 shots to find which ammo it likes, after about 20 types of ammo and having to drag my sorry ass down to the range about 6 times now the answer is Winchester Power point hollow points (the new ones) and it gives .487" at 50 mtr for 5 shots well within minute of rabbit head..

My new 308 I've been running in with 3 rd groups, best so far 1.7" at 200 mtr its done less than 50 factory rds.

With load development 3 shot groups until I think I've found the sweet spot and then a few 5 shot groups to confirm, preferably with the first shot going where its wanted.

slimjim wrote:

Aloysius wrote: On the other hand: our hunting insurance is still very cheap, Aloys, I always look forward and enjoy reading your posts! I don't know what to expect. So you have to have hunting insurance???

When you want to hunt here in the Northern part of Belgium, you first have to do some (severe) tests: 1 theoretical and 2 practicals (1 shot and safety, the other 1 group at 50 m with a rifle (not your own) standing with some support of a stake.
You're only allowed at the praticals when you passed your theoretical.
All OK, you get a paper.
You add a picture of yourself and then you need the extra things (every year afterwards):
- a paper from your insurance (in 3 parts: 1 for the government, 1 with stamp from the government for you to keep and 1 goes back to the insurance company.) Insurance costs about 40 euro yearly.
- a paper saying you're still a nice citizen (no violence, no drunken driving, no robberies, ....) Luckely we still don't have to prove we're not mad
- a paper showing we 've done our contribution of 150 euro (when we want to hunt in the Southern part of the country: add an extra +/-250 euro)
And when everything goes well, you get your permit and you can start looking for an area to hunt (which can cost you whatever you can spare, going from almost nothing till ...)

Here the owner of the land is also owner of the hunting rights, but you have to have at least 50 connecting hectares (that's 50x 100 m x 100 m) for 1 hunting area. (For also hunting roedeer you need much more)

And afterwards: when you want to hunt on that area you have to do your yearly paperwork explaining your 'managementplan'. To make this easy we join in WBE's (wild game management ring).
Our hunting area here in our village is about 6-700 ha, our WBE is about 7 000 ha.

when you know that agricultural land is going now for 25-30 000 euro/ha, then you understand it's not always easy to get a suitable hunting area. Some you buy, some is earned by family and friends, some you rent... at the end these are rather expensive hares, rabbits and pheasants Luckely we also have doves and ducks...

And about 3- or 5-shot groups: it's not the size of your groups that makes you a good hunter, it only gives you some confidence. I've often seen the difference between a naked paper and something hairy... paper stays after the first shot, something hairy will only stay when you've done your part

and as with dove or duckhunting: when you concentrate on the second shot to try a double, you often miss the first.

Not trying to pirate this very interesting post but I would like to confirm my analysis of Aloysius's post about land cost.

OK so 1 hectare = 2.47105381 acres.
And this morning 1 euro is 1.368 USD.
Using 27500 per ha.
5 years ago I bought 26 acres that equals 10.52182672 hectares.
So in Belgium, my 10.5 acres would be worth roughly 289,350 USD.

And I don't even have enough land to hunt on in Belgium. Boy Aloysius have I got a deal for you.

Lester, when you make a large pool on that land... you only need at least 2,5 ha connecting water for duckhunting... But when you feed them ducks you're (normally) not allowed to hunt there for 1 month... (that's 2,5 ha surface water, water in pipes underground doesn't count!)

so look for 4 or 5 friendly neighbours, call your land "New-Flanders" and yourself "king", don't take a government and only 1 nice secretary for administration (all the rest will only increase the costs) and if it is upto me, you're allowed to hunt.

Don't call your land a piece of Czech Republic or you'll need at least 500 ha to do the same trick. When you call it "New-Germany", you'll loose all your hunting rights to the village and they will rent the complete area to the highest bidder.

And don't forget: game, the weather, diseases nor poachers will follow these rules, they are only meant to tease honnest citizens...
so if you want to hunt something you need to do some extra effords.

Where's the aspirin?