The college sends me emails of jobs they are asked to help fill, and well this one is probably the best one so far ...

Quote::

------------------------- is looking for a bright, enthusiastic graduate (or final year student) to join our growing team and who we can train and mentor to eventually become the lead programmer in our CNC department. CNC Programmer must create machine code (programs) and work instructions for operators to setup and run NC controlled machinery. The Programmer must be well versed in metal cutting mechanics and must prove out his programs on the machine tool. Responsibilities: 1. It is the responsibility of the CNC Programmer to establish and maintain programs, setups, documentation and operating procedures for machine tools in the CNC department. 1.1 Must create geometry, tool paths, and prove out programs on the machine tool. 2. Must ensure machining activities in the CNC department result in products conforming to all customer specific requirements outlined in drawings, travelers, and any other sub-tier work instructions issued. 3. Must ensure programs are created to maximize machining efficiency through optimal tool selection, tool path selection, work holding selection, cutting parameters (speed and feed rates), and any other factors affecting the efficiency of the metal removal process. 4. Must ensure that all CNC programs are accompanied by appropriate work instructions, tool lists, and setup documentation to guide setup and operation of the machines with the primary objective of minimizing machine downtime without affecting product quality and worker safety. 5. Must ensure all tools and work holding devices are appropriately labeled for identification and must ensure they are stored in a safe and orderly fashion for quick retrieval. 6. Must ensure all soft data including programs and setup documentation are safely stored in an organized fashion on the Company’s network file server. Qualification/experience: 1. Must have (or close to graduation) a diploma or certificate of successful completion of a Computer Aided Manufacturing (CAM) software package, preferably MasterCam by CNC Software. 2. Must have be fluent in reading, writing, and speaking English. 3. Must have an excellent understanding of blue print reading and dimensioning symbols. 4. Knowledge of Solidworks, CATIA, or other 3D software is an asset. 5. Must be technically inclined and enjoy machining and working in a machine shop environment. Prior experience in metal cutting is an asset. 6. Must be well versed in Mastercam CNC software. Must be able to create geometry 2D and 3D, tool paths, tool selection, cutting feeds and speeds for steels and aluminum, work holding selection, etc. 7. Must be fluent in G and M codes for both lathes and mills. 8. Must be comfortable programming 2 axis lathes and 3 axis mills. 5 Axis mill programming is an asset, otherwise company will train. 9. Must have excellent overall computer skills in MS Office products, internet, email, and using digital cameras and using digital images to create instructions etc. This is a hands-on job where learning machining and learning the mechanics of metal cutting is a requirement. This is not an office position. Candidate will be required to operate machinery and some lifting may be required.

So they want a guy to be the set-up programmer straight out of college with all the experience necessary, want him to work on the floor, instead of the cushy office CNC programmers tend to work out of, have him predict the future every time someone decides to change the part drawings on a whim and want him to be versed in things that take more then any college program even trains, cause they are nearly fields of their own and take years to master, which is why most shops have a old grumpy guy who has been doing CAD/CAM for a decade doing the things in the first place.

All that with the "eventual" prospect of becoming the "lead programmer", seems like that is what your job is before you even start it since they want to to do everything in the shop anyways. Oh wait this means they'll try paying the graduate 11$ a hour instead of the 30$ plus that a real experienced lead programmer/set up programmer would demand for.

I wish any student I go to college with luck if they even apply for this job.

Dimitri

Don't ya just love the ethics used in modern business recruting?Every business needs an HR dept that has no idea of what a "job" actually entails-only that they know how to manipulate and control the "workers".And that they can have all of these multitudes of requirements,and still pay base wages.

I'm going through the job hunting drama atm, this is all too common, they want 30 yrs experience, someone who is a "team player" and a focal point for sh*t all in an 18 yrs old so they can pay SFA.
Even harder when they find out your coming out of a long term illness and you know how to play the HR game.

yip some employers want their cake and your bit too before eating them both in front of you, only to then get you to clean up the crumbs while on your lunch break. the whole need a job to train for the job merry go round is very much a part of driving a truck too, you cant learn it overnight and NOWHERE else but behind the wheel yet its not a trade? no one else is allowed to do what we do? still not a trade though?? the wages reflect this too, so you end up learning driving crap trucks for crap wages and move on as soon as you can.Omni I know what you mean about the old guys ,we have two drivers over 60years old and man to watch them back a trailer unit and I mean ANY trailer unit is a joy to watch, they do in minutes without having to go forward what takes me 1/4hr and lots of attempts to do.
your job maybe plurry high tech and I would get dizzy just trying to begin doing it, but by the same token your colleges probably wouldnt have the foggiest idea how to got round a paddock and out the gate with a truck on its own. each industry has its knarly bits to master and the sooner employers wake up and realise it takes time on the floor the better.
good luck for the job hunting.

What else can I say?!?!

Cheers, Vince

Reminds me of my own employer. About a month ago I was sick two days in a row (we don't get sick time, or sick pay). My boss said at the morning meeting the second day I called in sick, "put an add in the paper". Now I know he didn't put an add in the paper, but I've been at this job in this same building for 23yrs and I'm sure there is no one in the entire county that does what I do. Have no idea what he expects to find with an add in the paper but it sure won't be someone with any experience or skill. It takes years to hone a skill and years to learn the job. While our business is half of what it was a year ago, and it's getting worse, my work has dwindled to a 3 day week, the boss is still taking his wife to Dubai for her birthday for three weeks. The employees have been rationing their paychecks for years and he flaunts the new car experience to his clients daily. (Keeping up appearance?) What really gets me is the "you are expendable" attitude out of a golden spoon fed boss.

When I was in the military and you ran across an officer that had been through the ranks to get where he was, you noticed even the oldest of commissioned officers gave him the respect he deserved. I've always called my boss, the young lieutenant, because he always seems like someone just out of college, demanding the respect instead of deserving the respect of his rank. Interestingly he laughed at me when I told him I was in the Navy. He just couldn't see me being in the military. I'm not the typical military looking person I guess, but even still you would think that would bring some sort of impression, other than laughter.

So yes I've been job hunting too...rather sparse around here. I haven't lost my job, but I sure feel like I don't have much of one.

Suz

Dimitri wrote:

which is why most shops have a old grumpy guy who has been doing CAD/CAM for a decade doing the things in the first place.Dimitri

I resemble that remark..

Being an employer myself, I can understand MOST of the reasoning behind the job ad.
There are some savant that are able to fulfil the position.
In tough economy, all employer want to maximize their value of money.
Unlike employees that receives steady income regardless of the state of the business,
employers often have to fork out $$$ just to ensure the business is there (thus employees keep their jobs)

I believe the advert to Dimitri is a wish list, not a must.
If it was mine, maybe I'll add coffee making skill in it, and maybe a janitorial and admin jobs as well.

Geland,

Their wish list is a well for a 50 year old who's been a CNC programmer for 30 years plus a 20 year old who'd accept a low wage and do manual labor.

You cannot hire a savant at the wage and with some of those conditions attached. Because fact is, the guys who are experts and can do what they want, are regardless of the state of the economy in high demand. Because by doing their jobs right they save the company time and money and make the company more profitable.

There are other job ads without the extra conditions outright offering 30-40$ a hour for the expert they are looking for, currently in this area.

Dimitri

At one job interview a few years back the prospective employer told me what they wanted, skill wise, and what the shift was. I asked what the pay was. When they told me I got up, told them I was sorry I'd taken up their time and headed for the door. They did stop me and ask a few more questions but there was no way I would have taken that job. I'm afraid I'll be hunting another job soon and I'm sure not looking forward to it.

Career are almost like marriage, there is take and give, at least that's the idea I embraced.
Like in marriages,
often a person would rather get less pay for a job they really love than more pay for the job they hate.
I agree that pay got a lot to do with job retention, but not job satisfaction.

I cannot argue with someone that have a set mind, and I am not making apologies for the employers side.
Just stating the view from the other side, that's all.

gelandangan wrote:

I agree that pay got a lot to do with job retention, but not job satisfaction.

Truer words have never been spoken.
I disliked vast amounts about my last job, mainly management and process and jobs for the inner cliche. Most of the people were great and made going to work bearable.
I now find myself out of debt and basically refocused as only a real illness and financial freedom can do for you, my main problem is my bullshit limit switch is now set very fine.
Makes job hunting "interesting".

gelandangan wrote:

Career are almost like marriage, there is take and give, at least that's the idea I embraced.

True, but this seems like more take and less give from the employer side of things. Thence why it was a wtf moment when I read it.

Dimitri

the saying goes "find a job you love and you will never work another day in your life"
the only trouble is finding it then managing to live on what the pay is.
I enjoy what Im doing and love the area we live in so not tempted to uproot the family to get a few $ more per week......yet.

My son works in network management with a large telecommunications company. Last month he had an interview with a smaller company that does defence work. His boss called him in and offered him a significant raise and the opportunity to work with some new system technology. When he told me I remarked the experience would give him more job opportunities in the future. He told me that it gets harder to find other jobs because employers like to get guys with only a few years experience so they start at low salaries, train them up to a higher level but keep the salary low. He has a lot of customer contact but for the positions that do not his company is hiring recent immigrants and paying them comparatively less. All this to say that the labour market is getting more viscious in step with a global business economy.