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Lee Pro 1000
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Rifleshooter09
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Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:08 am    Post subject: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

Thinking of getting one of these in 45 LC. i helped a friend of mine set one up today. for the money they are a pretty impressive setup. has anyone got on or have any information on how well they work?

Watch yer topknot
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

As you probably know the pro 1000 is based on the turret press. The turrets have play in them between when they are at rest and when the ram comes up to work the brass, seat the bullet and on all the "up-stroke" operations. If you are comfortable with the misalignment in the press that is caused by the play then by all means go for it.
As a general rule the short, straight wall cases show little misalignment or damage but if you load bottleneck cases or thin long cases you may experience some bending that can be severe enough to keep a round from chambering.
All progressive presses have to be watched for even, consistant powder charges - no powder and double charges are not uncommon so watch what is going on with each stroke.
Primer delivery tubes have to be watched, cleaned and kept loaded with primers and the powder reservoir should be kept full for consistant delivery.

I would never put out my money on Lee presses again - been there done that I've got the T-shirt and the hat! - I have quality loading equipment that produces quality ammo. I don't trust my 550 to make consistant charges and I hand prime my cases. Unless I am producing a lot of ammo for plinking I prefer my single stage press where I can examine my load each step of the way. I am a bit of a fanatic when it comes to my loads - but you have to be to get sub MOA accuracy from your guns. If you are happy shooting loads that are equal to or less than factory loads then I can understand accepting the Lee turret presses as good enough.

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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
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rrogacki
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Joined: Apr 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

Try a Dilon press and you will never use a anything else again.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

Pauls...Would that go for the plain turret press too (20 year old 3 hole)? I mean...If that was a real problem then my 2 - 3 inch groups at 200 yards (when you sand bag it you still have error) with my .30-06 would really improve to what? 1/2 inch at 200 yards (WOW). I have measured this so-called play in my turret and have found that it is about the same in all presses (except single stage) if you want to be able to function the ram and turret function of all progressive presses. Misalignment? Not much. If the Pro 1000 is based on my Lee turret I see no problem with the ability of making excellent ammunition on it, both rifle and handgun. I believe the Pro 1000 has been around for quite a while. If so...It can't be all that bad. Besides I get real sick and tired of all the brand bashing I see on the various sites that I frequent. You like Chevrolets? Or do you prefer Fords. Now I think Fords are Junk. When I was still working I worked on both. But, because both Ford and Chevrolet are American made (for the most part) you get to pick your preferance, or maybe you like Dodges. I'm kinda iffy on those. And you??? Poke Besides. Dillon is like Budwiezer (gives me a head ache Very Happy ). Over rated for the money.
Then there is the Post Toasties and Kellogg Corn Flakes issue to be discussed. ROFL

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

Bushmaster,

The Lee turret press has the drop in and twist rotors. When you snap the rotor into position, there is nothing locking it down. It has freeplay that is measured in hundredths of an inch not in thousandths. The turret on my Lyman is locked on the shaft - no up and down play at all because it doesn't need play for clearance. If you set a dial indicator on the rotor of a Lee turret press and then raise the ram with a case to size you will watch the dial move over a 1/100 of an inch and on the one my brother had it was close to 6/100. Do the same thing with my Lyman press and the rotor moves less than 2/1000 of an inch. First it is mounted in bearings, then opposite the ram is an adjusting screw to take the thrust from the press and balance it. I keep it adjusted so that there is less than 1/1000 inch clearance - it is as close to rock solid as any press on the market. I have checked the radial alignment of the bullet and cartridge of loaded rounds and I have never experienced more than 3/1000 total radial misalignment with the Lyman. My brother with his Lee turret progressive ( manually or in auto index) bent 223 cases so bad that they wouldn't chamber in the gun they were fired from - more than 50/1000 inch runout!
This is not a story he told me - we had our benches set side by side while he was living with me. I showed him why with tools made to measure much smaller distances than we needed to se the problem. Have someone else size a few rounds while you watch the rotor on your Lee turret press. You won't need any precision tools to see what is going on.

I can't say whether your loads and gun would shoot any better if the process were changed to a good press but I would be willing to bet that the ammo would have less runout when assembled on a decent press.

I am not bashing Lee - some of their stuff is good and I started with the "classic" Lee loaders. I only used a mallet a couple of times to bang things together before I got a small arbor press to replace the mallet. I got some good loads using Lee equipment. Their "O" press is good enough to load your '06 on and give you decent ammo. It may not last as long as a Lyman, Redding or RCBS but until it wears out it will give good results. Its just that the Lee turret press is not built to stay in alignment or you wouldn't be able to turn it or click it in and out to put the next one in. We did find that for the short, straight walled cases it worked at least well enough that the ammo would chamber. Our problem surfaced when he was using the 223 ammo.

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Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

I have no idea of the condition of your brother's Lee press, but I just did runout checks using small shaft "V" blocks and an Ames dial indicator (also old) and my 20 year old Lee turret press is giving me only +/- .001" (1/1000) runout on my .30-06 rounds. Just for curiocity I took readings on the case mouth and on the bullet. The readings were the same. +/- .001" (1/1000).

Only got less then +/- .002" (2/1000) on my .30-30 rounds.

Never heard of cases being bent by a press enough that they wouldn't chamber. Although possible, that's got to be one bent case. The alignment on that press has to really be out enough to see it with the naked eye. Other then my ocasional clumsiness I have crushed a .30-30 case or two during crimping until I started using a Lee FCD.

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

I (like PaulS) Do not like play in my loading machines, SO....I dont use Lee presses for rifle cartridges. I would use one for pistol cartridges, but not rifle, I "had" a lee turret three hole press and it moved quit a bit when loading, had no problems, but never loaded rifle cartridges.
No, I'm affraid Lee has alot of work to do on there turrets fitting in the presses better.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

Crackshot...What is the maximum runout allowed? I realize that +/- .000 is ideal. I have been trying to find it in my load manuals and so far come up with zilch..

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rrogacki
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

When I started to reload 15 or more years ago I looked at a Lee press. I was amazed at how poor the quality of construction was. I looked at RCBS and Dilon, both were of superior quality. I choose a Dilon RL550B, because of the no questions asked, lifetime warranty. I have loaded thousands of rounds without problem. Sure I've had a part or two wear out over the years, but I just called Dilon and told them about the problem and a week later the new part came, free of charge with no shipping cost. These presses are the Cadillacs of reloading presses and are hardly over priced for their level of quality. If Dilon gives you a headache, take a Tylennol and load a few hundred rounds, the pain will never come back again. But hey, if you think plastic is better then metal, then Lee is the press for you.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

O K...Everyone at once now...Say the Dillon Montra...OOOMMMM......OOOMMMM

I don't like Cadilacs. They cost to much for what you get. Very Happy

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

Bushmaster
I have not seen in all my life of reloading, a Lee turret press that could hold any runout less than 1/16". The play in mine was very very bad.
You must have got a good one! Good luck to you.

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rrogacki
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Joined: Apr 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

As oposed to the Lee montra "cheap, cheap, cheap". When it comes to Dilon, you get what you pay for, QUALITY, at a reasonable price. You may not like Cadillacs or Dilon, but I don't like presses that have more plastic in them then a frisbee and can't load a round that shoots consistently to save its' life. Your opinion is what it is, just your opinion and I am not going to change it. Live long and shoot well !!
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

Bushmaster,

What is the play in the turret of your press - I understood you to say that it produces a finished 3006 round with .001" runout and a 3030 with a total of .002" runout. I can accept that because I have no idea what your process is.
What I want to know is how much play is there between the turret and frame from an "at rest" position to a "full stroke" when sizing a case.
Measure the amount of movement in the removable turret (rotor) between the handle up position and the handle down position when sizing your 3006 or 3030.

Then if you get to wondering about it measure the same distance comparing front to back movement during the same cycle.

My brother's press was brand new - he had used it for less than a month to reload some target (LWC) 38's before he used it on the 223 rounds. His cases were bending through the body itself. The Rifle was a Thompson Center TCR so there was no help from bolt to assist in chambering. Never had to check them for runout - you could see it without the aid of any tools or equipment.

I am glad that yours is producing such good ammo - .001" would be good for most single station presses. I haven't checked runout on my 3006 in decades - When I tried to check it back then I didn't have enough precision in my dial indicators (they read in .001") and the needle would just wobble a bit. I have a rig that is made to center on the bullet nose and the rear of the case holding it toward the bullet with a spring loaded pressure plate. I may have to get it out again and see if I can adapt my newer dial indicators to it. I have at least one that reads to .00039" (1/100 mm)

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Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Bushmaster
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Joined: Jun 12, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

Turret to turret ring .014" measured using feeler gage front and rear

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Pro 1000 Reply with quote

Cadillacs cost alittle more, but my "cadillac" Dillon, will be loading ammo for along time, and I wont have to beg for spare parts, even IF they may be needed.

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