HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 315
BOT: 1
Total: 316
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Your Account
04: Forums
05: Home
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Photo Albums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Photo Albums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Home
24: Your Account
25: Forums
26: Photo Albums
27: Home
28: Forums
29: Home
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Your Account
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Photo Albums
37: Forums
38: Photo Albums
39: Your Account
40: Home
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Home
44: Your Account
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Your Account
49: Your Account
50: Forums
51: Your Account
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Your Account
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Home
58: Forums
59: Photo Albums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Your Account
65: Home
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Your Account
69: Forums
70: Photo Albums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Your Account
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Photo Albums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Your Account
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Home
85: Your Account
86: Forums
87: Your Account
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Home
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Your Account
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Your Account
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Your Account
104: Home
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Home
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Your Account
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Your Account
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Photo Albums
140: Forums
141: Photo Albums
142: Forums
143: Your Account
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Home
147: Forums
148: Photo Albums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Photo Albums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Your Account
156: Forums
157: Home
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Photo Albums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Photo Albums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Home
168: Forums
169: Photo Albums
170: Forums
171: Your Account
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Photo Albums
177: Forums
178: Your Account
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Your Account
183: Home
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Home
187: Photo Albums
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Photo Albums
193: Photo Albums
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Photo Albums
198: Home
199: Your Account
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Your Account
203: Forums
204: Your Account
205: Forums
206: Home
207: Your Account
208: Forums
209: Photo Albums
210: Forums
211: Photo Albums
212: Forums
213: Home
214: Forums
215: Forums
216: Photo Albums
217: Forums
218: Photo Albums
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Your Account
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Home
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Photo Albums
235: Home
236: Forums
237: Photo Albums
238: Forums
239: Photo Albums
240: Your Account
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Photo Albums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Home
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Your Account
250: Your Account
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Your Account
254: Home
255: Forums
256: Home
257: Your Account
258: Your Account
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Your Account
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Photo Albums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Photo Albums
270: Photo Albums
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Home
277: Home
278: Forums
279: Home
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Home
286: Forums
287: Home
288: Forums
289: Your Account
290: Your Account
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Your Account
295: Forums
296: Photo Albums
297: Forums
298: Home
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Your Account
304: Forums
305: Home
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Your Account
309: Forums
310: Forums
311: Your Account
312: Forums
313: Home
314: Forums
315: Photo Albums
  BOT:
01: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820723
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

AR Muzzle Brake
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
Go to page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:02 pm    Post subject: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

I've been enjoying shooting my AR-15 at Carbine matches. I've been shooting pretty accurately but my follow-up shots aren't as quick as I would like them. I was looking at some military photos the other day and noticed that the Army uses muzzle brakes.



So I decided that I should investigate if a muzzle brake could help speed up my follow-up shots. I procured one from Smith Enterprises



Some of the muzzle brakes on the market can get pretty pricey and some of pain inflictors integrated into the front. I choice this one because it has a single purpose, reduce muzzle disruption, just like the big guns. It also cost only $60 including postage.


Last edited by slimjim on Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

I've been pondering how to quantify the effectiveness of the muzzle brake. I want to go with more than it just "feels" better. I've been thinking of using a large cardboard sheet at about 25 yards and doing an off-hand double tap as fast as I can pull the trigger. The first shoot should be on target. The dispersion or distance away the second shots are from the point of aim should provide a measurable indication of how effective the muzzle brake is doing its job. I was going to do this with a bare barrel, the standard muzzle flash suppressor, and the muzzle brake. I will also check slow-fire accuracy for each configuration with different ammo. What do you think?
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 5001
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

Use a shot timer to see if you can get back on target faster.

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

That would be good. I'll have to see if I can borrow one or maybe rig up a stop watch that will be reasonably accurate.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

+1 on the shot timer !!!
One that records individual shot times and splits would be the way to go, that way you can calculate shot intervals.

I'd set up four 8" pieces of cardboard at 25 yards and double tap them at least 3 times to get an average with and without the brake.

As for muzzle breaks in general, they tend to work their best with the higher pressure stuff. Light loads may not show a noticeable difference.

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
One that records individual shot times and splits would be the way to go, ...

Yes, that would be the way to go. Got to see if I can borrow one locally.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15701
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:31 am    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

The PACT Timer should do the job nicely for ya Slim.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

Secured a shot timer from a buddy. Old but should work. May use my cellphone and call my answering machine and record the string, then time it when I get home if I have trouble with the timer. Should get out to try it on Friday.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

Got to the range today. Ran into 3 issues. I didn't bring the right tools to change out the standard flash suppressor for the muzzle brake. Needed more than just the wrenches. I've got to secure the rifle in some sort of clamping system. Everybodies shots were being picked up the the shot timer, even on the other side of the range. And the wind was gusting at 20 mph. The wind would push you around off-hand just as much is not more than any recoil. I did get get others on the range to pause and did some trial runs. So all I have to report today is my average shot interval in the gusty wind with the AR - 22LR was 0.77 seconds and the AR-.223 with the standard flash suppressor was 1.65 seconds. Not sure when I'll get back out to the range so it may be a week or two before I report back.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

What a beautiful day to be shooting. Overcast. Ice was covering the trees and bushes with a glaze of white. The roads were dry. Temperature did rise above freezing. The shooting tables were covered in ice but the wind was light. Bundled up with a double layer of long underwear to stayed warm. Shot for 4 hours and loved every minute.

The shot timer worked great and was definitely the ticket for measuring performance differences. I used a 6-inch bullseye at 25 yards and rapid fired a 10-shot string. Follow-up shots occurred every time the sight went back into the bullseye. The 10-shot strings provided 9 intervals to average. Without the wind buffeting your body like last time, follow-up shots were much closer in time. The 22LR time interval came way down to 0.33 seconds. Recoil is so low, you basically could pull the trigger as fast as you could. The mil-std muzzle flash suppressor interval was 0.91 seconds. I then removed the suppressor and shot a bare barrel, the time interval was 0.85 seconds – statistically the same. Then I installed the muzzle brake, the interval time came down to 0.73 seconds. Basically a 0.2 second reduction, rounds off to a 25% improvement. If I threw out the high and low time in each string, these improvement numbers remained the same. I also noticed the time interval was much more consistent with the muzzle brake.

You definitely could feel the reduction in recoil. Noise did go up but not objectionably and no where near as load as my .270. It felt faster than what I recorded. However, the timer doesn’t work on perception and was glad I quantified the results.

I also fired each configuration at 100 yards to determine accuracy and point of impact (POI) affects. I used 55gr FMJ from 3 different manufactures. There were some interesting results. I’ll post them when I get that data crunched including some pictures.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

Now start working with different powders and find what makes that brake really work to your advantage !!!
I'm betting you can lower your interval times even more !!!

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

Below is a composite of all the 5-shot groups I fired to determine the accuracy affects from changing the mass attached to the end of the barrel. I have experienced significant and dramatic changes in accuracy when I added a muzzle brake to my Mini-14. This was no exception but not as dramatic as on the Mini-14. The first row was Federal 55gr FMJ, 2nd is PMC 55gr FMJ, and the 3rd is Remington 55gr FMJ. The first column is with the mil-std flash suppressor that came on my S&W M&P-15 (16" barrel). The accuracy was not as good as it has been in prior sessions but this was the coldest I've shot this AR, about 33F. The second column is accuracy with the flash suppressor removed. The third is with the muzzle brake installed with the supplied lock nut. I knew the location of the mass would affect accuracy so I tried installing the muzzle brake with a crush washer which would move the muzzle brake mass further onto the barrel, similar to how the BOSS works. The results are in the fourth column.



I was not happy with how the POI shifted to the right and how the groups spread out using the crush washer. So I removed and reinstalled the muzzle brake with the lock-nut and lock-tite. I used more torque this time and was very pleased to see with the results which are in the 5th column (was out of PMC by then). The results were better than the previous install with the lock-nut, however, I believe in leaving well enough alone and seeing 5-shot group sizes just over an inch was good enough for me. This muzzle brake will stay installed for a while. I continued to fire at 50 yards and at 250 yards. The groups stayed consistent.

Here is a picture of the installed muzzle brake.



Last edited by slimjim on Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
Now start working with different powders and find what makes that brake really work to your advantage

Unfortunately, I don't have a reloading press set-up so can't reload with full-sized cases. I just use a Lee Classic Reloader that neck sizes. I just shoot bulk ammo in my AR for now except for reloading a few hunting rounds in new cases. I may get some hotter ammo and give the timing another try. I should also practice my body position and see if that makes any difference or I can improve my efficiency.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

Going to pick-up some 40gr and 69gr at Cabela's today and will see how the brake works with different bullet weights.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Muzzle Brake Reply with quote

Try some 5.56 NATO rounds !!! (as long as they're safe in your gun)

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.