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7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!!
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: 7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!! Reply with quote

7mm08 Load Data

Federal cases
Federal 210M Primer
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet
44.0gr Varget Powder (Hodgdon)
AOL 2.825

Case prep includes primer pocket uniform and the flash hole deburred from the inside.
I use a Redding FL bushing die to re-size but use the ball expander with it. (Got more testing to do with out it) Set to push the shoulder back .002
Primers are seated with RCBS hand priming tool.
Each load is weighed on Redding beam scale.
Seating die is basic old style ( I guess some would call it outdated) RCBS

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: 7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!! Reply with quote

Donut Slayer wrote:
chambered, ya done with my hole punch yet? Very Happy jut funnin wif ya.

No......got one more I'm working with !!! Very Happy

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!! Reply with quote

thankyou my good man Very Happy Ive passed that on to my nephew to try.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: 7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!! Reply with quote

Here's the story of what I went through when I bought this rifle !!!
I know it's a little long and I apologize for that.


I bought this rifle in the fall of 1994 with all intentions that it would be ready for the deer season opener. I had mounted a Leupold 16X target scope on it in preparation for load development. This gun was originally going to wear a 2-7X Leupold.

From the first range session it was evident there was a problem, I just didn't understand what was going on because it didn't make sense. I had started my load development as usual about half way between minimum and maximum. The first load had showed a ring develop just in front of the web of the case. Initial thoughts were the chamber had a little more head space than should but I could fix that with the re-sizing die. By the time I got to the third load the bolt became difficult to open. Thinking I had made a mistake I quit shooting and went home to pull some bullets. I was unable to find any thing wrong with my loads. To rule out anything related to powder and primers I had gone to another source to get a new batch. That following weekend the same results repeated themselves.

After thinking about the situation for some time I came up with the thought that maybe this rifle had one of those tight chambers I've heard about. So I went back to the loading bench and loaded a handful of cases with the minimum charge as per the Nosler handbook. At first it appeared as if I was on to something. The ring was barely visible and the bolt wasn't sticky. I then decided to shoot a 3 shot group. The barrel wasn't hot but I could still feel some warmth in it from the previous shots. The first shot seemed ok, the second the bolt got sticky and after the third I had to let it cool a bit before the bolt would open.

At this point I came to the realization that there was a definite problem and I wasn't a happy camper. Calling Remington's customer service department to discuss the issue only managed to anger me that much more. The only thing they seemed to be concerned about was the fact I wasn't shooting green and yellow boxes of ammo. I then asked to speak to the person in charge. After finally getting him on the phone I had the pleasure of hearing the same ole song and dance about ammo. My response was I'm experienced enough to know that this isn't a ammo issue that something was wrong with the rifle. After a long discussion on my knowledge and experience his only advise was to go buy the green and yellow box, shoot the gun and be happy. After that I got the speech about how the guns are test fired and inspected before leaving the factory. I hung the phone up in a state of shock and disbelieve.

After stewing on this for a couple of weeks I decided to call Remington back and demand that they inspect my new rifle.
That conversation ended with them giving me the phone number of one of their authorized gunsmiths that was about an hours drive from my house. I decided to call him to discuss the problem and then take the gun to him. What a joke this guy turned out to be. At first things went good, he also had the attitude about the ammo but was at least listening and questioning me to the point he understood I knew what I was doing. We then started talking about the over 3 inch groups I was getting. He questioned if I had used another scope to rule it out. I responded by telling him what it was and that it has proven itself a number of times. That is when things went south. I was told put a 4X scope on the gun, buy some factory ammo and go hunting. This man preceded to tell me that you can't hold a 16X scope still enough on a lightweight gun and shoot good groups. After a bit of arguing I said forget about the groups explain the excessive pressure, the scope isn't causing it. At that point he must of decided I was wasting his time and advised me to put a proper scope on my gun get the appropriate ammo and call back if I still thought I had a problem.

Well time to call Remington back. Only this time I want someone a lot higher up the chain. Not an easy task to say the least but I was able to get a name and simply called their 800 number and asked for him. Obviously he wasn't available and I had left a message with his secretary thinking I would never hear from him. ( I wish I would have kept his name) The next day he returned my call, I was completely shocked. Before we got into the particulars I asserted my concerns over how this issue was handled and that their company needs to make some serious changes to policy. We had a lengthy conversation about my rifle, the troubles with it, the customer service department and their choice of competent gunsmiths to represent them. In the end the man asked that I go buy their ammo, shoot some of it in the gun, return the spent cases with the gun to the warranty department and proceeded to give me a reference number. Why couldn't it of been that easy from the beginning ??? He assured me that if a problem was found he would oversee the warranty and I would be 100% satisfied when the gun was returned.

Some 6+ months later I finally received my Model 7 back from Remington. The only thing the paper work stated was that rings and tears were found in the chamber. Nothing as to what they did to fix it, who fixed it or how it was fixed. I called the warranty department to get some info on what they did. The person I spoke with couldn't understand why there wasn't any information available under my reference number. The only thing she could say for sure was that I had a warranty claim and what ever it was has been returned to me. My first thought was here we go again.

I went to the range shortly thereafter with my 16X scope of course.
I began by shooting some of that green and yellow boxed stuff. To my surprise I had a 3 shot group well under a inch, no pressure signs to speak of and a smile on my face. I then started my load testing and quickly realized that I had a shooter and wondered how much influence my warranty claim had placed on it by talking to someone higher up in management. I called him again and left a message of thanks and that I was indeed 100% satisfied with my new rifle.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!! Reply with quote

GEEEZ Chamberdude what a PIA that was to go through! I would never have had figured that one out on my own (neither did you, but) and at least you had the stamina to stick to your guns (so to speak) and persevere to a happy ending! Good for you! I bet that rifle has new meaning for you now. Usually, in my case, I end up being in the wrong, and hate the people that "told-me-so"....I'm grumpy that way.

Suz

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!! Reply with quote

great story chambered221. and its good advice to anyone else dealing with a major problem WRITE DOWN WHO WHAT AND WHEN of all phone calls ask how to spell thier name is usually enough to let them know you are serious.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!! Reply with quote

Suzanne wrote:
GEEEZ Chamberdude what a PIA that was to go through!


Believe it or not I condensed it a bit !!!

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Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!! Reply with quote

Here's a picture of that first group after receiving the rifle back !!!
Some of that yellow and green boxed stuff......140gr core-lokt
Group is right around .5 (give or take a few .000 )


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Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!! Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
7mm08 Load Data, 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet, 44.0gr Varget

chambered, thanks for the details. I've had two guns I've had problems with but my customer service experience went well from the start. The first problem was with a CMP M1 Garand. The cases ejected less than 12" away. They asked me to send them a spent brass case. After inspection, they told me my chamber was bad and to send the rifle back. It was returned with a new barrel ... and all new parts attached to the receiver.

The second rifle was a Marlin 39A lever action .22. These rifles have a take-down feature where the barrel and left side of the reciever separate from the butt stock and ride side of the receiver. Well I couldn't get it back together repeatably or in a manner that allowed smooth bolt operation. The customer service rep hand picked a replacement off the line and traded it out which I thought was wonderful that they didn't try to rework the gun I bought.

Glad you got a great shooter! Oh, what is the velocity of your load?

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 7mm08, 120gr B-Tips, Varget powder, and no wind !!! Reply with quote

Last 5 shot velocity average was 2870fps !!!

Out of all the chronograph testing I've done it's always been between 2850-2925 fps.
That's using different combination's of cases primers etc.
The thing that has always confused me is while using Federal primers ES are just under 20fps. Using Remington primers ES usually stays in the 5-7 fps range, but the load consistently shoots tighter groups with the Federal's........so I use them. Remington primers usually keep me above the 2900 fps mark but there's just not enough of a velocity gain for me to worry about that.

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Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
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