HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: IPutMoInYoA
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13131

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 325
BOT: 2
Total: 327
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Your Account
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Home
07: Your Account
08: Your Account
09: Your Account
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Your Account
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Your Account
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Your Account
26: Photo Albums
27: Home
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Your Account
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Your Account
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Home
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Your Account
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Your Account
52: Your Account
53: Forums
54: Home
55: Photo Albums
56: Your Account
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Your Account
61: Forums
62: Home
63: Forums
64: Your Account
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Home
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Home
76: Your Account
77: Your Account
78: Home
79: Forums
80: Your Account
81: Your Account
82: Forums
83: Your Account
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Home
91: Forums
92: Home
93: Forums
94: Your Account
95: Your Account
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Home
99: Home
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Your Account
105: Home
106: Home
107: Forums
108: News
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Home
113: Forums
114: Home
115: Home
116: Forums
117: Home
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Your Account
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Home
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Home
131: Forums
132: Home
133: Forums
134: Your Account
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Home
142: Your Account
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Photo Albums
148: Home
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Your Account
155: Home
156: Home
157: Photo Albums
158: Photo Albums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Photo Albums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Home
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Home
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Forums
184: Your Account
185: Photo Albums
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Home
191: Forums
192: Your Account
193: Home
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Your Account
197: Your Account
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Forums
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Your Account
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Your Account
209: Forums
210: Home
211: Forums
212: Home
213: Forums
214: Your Account
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Your Account
218: Home
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Your Account
223: Photo Albums
224: Forums
225: Your Account
226: Forums
227: Home
228: Forums
229: Your Account
230: Home
231: Forums
232: Your Account
233: Forums
234: Home
235: Your Account
236: Your Account
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Your Account
243: Forums
244: Your Account
245: Forums
246: Home
247: Forums
248: Your Account
249: Home
250: Forums
251: Your Account
252: Your Account
253: Forums
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Home
258: Forums
259: Your Account
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Your Account
265: Your Account
266: Photo Albums
267: Forums
268: Home
269: Forums
270: Forums
271: Home
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Home
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Home
278: Forums
279: Your Account
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Your Account
290: Your Account
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Home
297: Home
298: Forums
299: Home
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Your Account
303: Forums
304: Home
305: Home
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Forums
310: Forums
311: Forums
312: Forums
313: News
314: Forums
315: Forums
316: Home
317: Forums
318: Your Account
319: Forums
320: Your Account
321: Your Account
322: Your Account
323: Forums
324: Forums
325: Forums
  BOT:
01: Home
02: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2452
  · Views: 824588
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

  Forming AckleyImproved Brass

ReloadingOver the last thirty years or so building rifles and reloading, one subject that comes up frequently are the Ackley improved or more to the point ,what is the correct way to form brass. I'll get into some details and ramble on a bit, but I think in the end it will make sense.

( NOTE...I'm neither a writer or good picture taker. The old saying "A picture speaks a thousand words" applies .....)

The design is such that factory or handloaded ammo can be safely fired in an improved chamber. In reality,they are not ture wildcat cartridges. Wildcats are considered a rifle for which no factory loaded ammo exists. A 6.5-06 would be an example. The 6.5-308 was a wildcat for many years until Remington standardized it,now known as the 260 Remington. The 7mm-08 is another example. The term "improved" is a round reconfigured by fireforming,but where both ammo and chambered rifle exist.

With that, lets look at a typical AI cartridge. First, the shoulder is typically moved to a steeper angle, 40 degrees the most common, second, the body taper is reduced to a minimun spec,normally .010" case web to the shoulder and third, the neck-shoulder junction is moved back. This is a picture of a formed AI and parent cartridge, a 22-250 and 22-250AI.


The method to form AI brass is actually quite simple by firing factory or handloaded ammo,but I need to make a few comments first.

We all hear about the term "Headspace". A black art or a mythical process to some, but in my opinion, its simply a piece of brass trapped between two unmoveable pieces of steel. I believe in the K.I.S.S. principle.
Headspace is normally the distance from the boltface to a point on the case shoulder known at the "Datum" for a bottleneck rimless cartridge,however there are other ways to acheive it. As an example,when the 204 Ruger hit the market factory brass was at a premium, more costly than gold I think. One work around was to reform 222 Rem. Mag brass, the parent of the 204 R. Since I had a supply of left over 222 RM brass,by partically resizing the neck in the 204 die creating a "false" shoulder and fireforming, I made 204s. My load for the 204 is 29.5-BLC2 with a 32 grain bullet, the forming load,28.0-BLC2 and a 32. As to why that forming load I'll get to later. Take notice of the shoulder position between the 222 RM and 204 cases.


Another method of headspacing as used to form AI brass is the neck-shoulder junction. The design of a true improved places the junction back from that of the parent round. The reason for that is when a factory case is chambered the only contact is with the boltface and the junction. Remember, the AI chamber has a straighter body and steeper shoulder angle, so the casehead and shoulder-neck junction points are the only place a factory case will make full contact. As a side note, the orginal spec for the 30-06 was the same, casehead to neck-shoulder junction, not the datum!

Here are three examples, a 22-250AI,250-3000AI and a 270-308AI next to the parent cartridge. All three parent cases were randomally selected from lots of brass, right out of the bag except the 270,which was necked to 27 from 308 brass only.

Notice,in all three examples, the location of the neck-shoulder junction.

Here are the three parents,smoked to show where they headspace in the AI chamber. The bright ring indicates contacts the chamber wall or zero headspace.


Next, the parent, a chamber cast and a formed 250-3000AI case.


The pictures show the correct method for headspacing a factory parent to form improved brass. When the factory round is chambered there will be a slight crush fit if the chamber was cut correctly.

Now, if the chamber was cut correctly and is in fact a true AI, there are two way to make brass. One, simply fire factory loaded ammo of you choice, the other, handload forming rounds. Now, regardless of the opinions,thoughts,ideas and rumors what charge to use, the correct one is a stiff charge for the parent round. As an example, for my 22-250AI I shoot a load of 39.5 - Varget, the forming load is 36.0-Varget, both with a 50 grain bullets. That 36 grain load is just under the top for a 22-250 listed in the Sierra manual.

Although some suggest and get away with a reduced load to form brass, from expericence, I don't recommend it. A reduced load may casue "bouncing" effect and not fully form the case. (P.O. Ackley words) Although appearence wise it looks perfect, they can be as much as .030" short causing a casehead or top shoulder seperation. In my 30 some odd years using AIs I have seen this time after time. About a year ago, a showed me a case with a complete shoulder seperation from a 243AI. It happend on the second firing He had formed the using a light load for the 243 Win. Measurements of the formed brass showed they were .005 - .0015 short. I made a chamber cast to confirm the chamber dimensions, loaded a new batch of ammo and they formed exactly right. Lesson learned.

Another miscomception is a bullet jam. A bullet will not provide headspacing, it moves! Remember my defination of headspace, a brass case between two "unmoveable" pieces of steel? A bullet will begin moving before the case can expand 100%. I've heard of the firing moving the case forward when the primer is struck. If this happens,the case is too short, or the chamber is too long. I'll say it again, "a factory case will headspace on the neck-shoulder junction in a correctly chambered barrel".
I continue mentioning "correctly" chambered.. There are those that simply re-ream an existing chamber to convert to an AI without setting back the barrel. This creates a chamber longer than a true improved. Remember the AI is longer from the casehead to the top of the shoulder and shorter at the neck-shoulder junction than the parent round. For a 22-250 - 22-250AI the measurements are....

(22-250 22-250AI)
Casehead to shoulder ............ 1.514" ... 1.524"
Casehead to neck - shoulder .. 1.664" .... 1.644"
Overall length ....................... 1.912" .... 1.892
Top shoulder diameter ............ .414" ..... .454"

Using these measurements, you can see why setting back the barrel is required. If you thinking of having the conversion done,ask how the job will be done . If it doesn't include the setback, find another 'smith...quick! I made that mistake with my first one,a 280AI. Another gunsmith did the job over, correctly.
At times a reamer is cut to a special specs, ie..freebore,neck diameter,etc. Ask for the reamer specifications before having the job done. Its always a good idea to have the 'smith test fire the rifle and supply a few fired cases. The last few I've put together have been fully threaded and chambered Savage barrels. To headspace them, I use a factory unsized case. The 22-250AI and 250-3000AI in the pictures were done using factory brass and fireformed. In fact, all my Savages have be setup this way, AI or otherwise.

After forming, reloading for an AI is exactly the same as any other catridge and caution should be used in working up a loads as one would normally do.

Now, some may agree,disagree or have other opinions This is what I've been taught, do and have formed thousands of rounds without a problem.

Well, I hope this helps those thinking the AI route. They are not the problem some make them out to be. The benifits are a higher velocities and extended case life if loading is kept within reason, but one more step in the process of reloading.


Take care !

Bill

Posted by BillPa on Saturday, April 08, 2006 (16:27:17) (15897 reads) [ Administration ]
Related Links
 More about Reloading

Most read story about Reloading:
OCW ( Optimal Charge Weight )
 

Article Rating
Average Score: 4.75
Votes: 8


Please take a second and vote for this article:

Excellent
Very Good
Good
Regular
Bad

 

 

Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.