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tlo7mm Super Member
Joined: Nov 15, 2010 Posts: 426 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:54 pm Post subject: straight wall brass question |
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I was curious as I am new to the straight wall brass club, do you guys trim your brass and prime them before running them through the expander die or do you trim then run them through the expandinder die and then prime? Also since I am running the brass through the expander die, is it necessary to chamfer/ream the necks or not?
_________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." ~ The Dalai Lama
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. - Napoleon Bonaparte
The wisdom of man never yet contrived a system of taxation that would operate with perfect equality. - Andrew Jackson
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain |
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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I trim mine after resizing. Then I bell them just enough that they don't shave the bullet to prevent neck cracks due to over-working the necks.
I only clean off any burrs on the brass - no need to chamfer or ream the necks at all. If you are using an autoloading pistol then you only want to make the outside edge of the brass clean with no burrs - never remove any native material because in most cases the cartridge headspaces on the neck.
_________________ Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads |
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5001 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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Personally I size, then expand, then trim and deburr (if I'm going to) and then prime. I usually trim and deburr all new brass. For straight walled brass I believe that's a one time thing. It makes for more consistent crimps and, for those cases that headspace on the case mouth, more consistent head spacing.
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15704 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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tlo7mm Super Member
Joined: Nov 15, 2010 Posts: 426 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:52 am Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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Thanks for the advice. I will certainly keep all of this in mind when prepping and reloading for my 40sw.
_________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." ~ The Dalai Lama
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. - Napoleon Bonaparte
The wisdom of man never yet contrived a system of taxation that would operate with perfect equality. - Andrew Jackson
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain |
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SingleShotLover Super Member
Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 1005 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:58 am Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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It all depends on the specific trimmer you are using. The trim pilots on mine are sized to center cases that have been sized but not "belled". Remember that cases that headspace on the mouth are more critical as to trimming than rimmed cases, but each need to be kept to a uniform length for function and accuracy. Length of case also affects the crimping of cartridges as well, which means that rimmed cartridges can have varying degrees of crimp if not kept uniform while "rimless" cases will have varying headspace issues if not uniform.
_________________ If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!
The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.
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Grumulkin Super Member
Joined: Apr 16, 2007 Posts: 365 Location: Central Ohio
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:59 am Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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1. I have NEVER found the need to trim straight walled cartridges.
2. If you don't trim, you don't have to deburr.
Straight walled brass doesn't stretch much at least in part because the guns they're shot in are of the lowish pressure sort. Even in high pressure straight walled cartridges, the brass will fail in some way before there is the need to trim.
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11390 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:56 am Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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1. Clean (tumble)
2. Resize/decap
3. Trim if needed. Revolver cases need to be within +/- .002 of each other to insure an even crimp. (Hell...I even trim .45 ACP cases because my Colt 1911 prefers cases at .90).
4. Deburr and tumble for one hour.
5. Clean primer pockets and prime cases.
6. Expand (as needed) and load according to the press and die system at your bench.
This is the same procedure for new brass.
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5001 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:17 am Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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Note that I'm not saying that you should trim because the cases stretch. I'm saying that you should trim new brass once to make them all an even length. I just measured about a dozen once-fired .38 Special cases that a friend gave me. The lengths varied from 1.143" to 1.149". To me that variation would lead to inconsistent crimps so I'll trim them all.
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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The routine that I have developed over the years includes running each case through the trimmer. My pistol cases rarely remove metal and my rifle cases go for a few loadings before the case mouths get "polished" by the trimmer.
For me it is just part of the process that keeps my loads honest.
_________________ Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads |
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:11 am Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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I clean the burrs off new cases and spin the case on a flat piece of wet/dry paper to dull the sharp edges. Priming comes next and flaring with a powder through lee expander die. A taper crimp if desired on rimless pistol and factory crimp die for rimmed pistol and rifle. Fired cases for pistol are deprimed, cleaned and reloaded without trimming. If they are range pickings I will use either a revolver cylinder or pistol barrel to visually check that rimless cases are within the length tolerances. I believe there is a post on this on this site. Rifle cases are checked for length by sampling each batch after depriming. (I keep cases in seperated batches.) Any case that is trimmed gets the new case treatment and then reloaded as per normal.
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle) |
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Grumulkin Super Member
Joined: Apr 16, 2007 Posts: 365 Location: Central Ohio
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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Pumpkinslinger wrote: |
Note that I'm not saying that you should trim because the cases stretch. I'm saying that you should trim new brass once to make them all an even length. I just measured about a dozen once-fired .38 Special cases that a friend gave me. The lengths varied from 1.143" to 1.149". To me that variation would lead to inconsistent crimps so I'll trim them all. |
You're talking 6 thousandths of an inch difference. I'll bet that the cases of loaded factory ammunition vary that much AND that you will never be able to tell the difference on paper between ammo made with trimmed vs untrimmed cases.
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11390 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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You are probably right Grumulkin, but I will. I use "great" care in assembling my ammunition. I use a single stage and a turret press to load both rifle and handgun ammunition. The better quality that I can produce the better I feel about my end product. Some of my friends say I'm anal about it, but I have watched as they have had misfires and squibs. I have had neither.
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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Grumulkin Super Member
Joined: Apr 16, 2007 Posts: 365 Location: Central Ohio
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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I'm anal about it as well and I also use a single stage and turret press for all my reloading. With the exception of a few powders that meter exceptionally well, all of my reloads have individually weighed powder charges as well. That said, I prefer to expend my time and energy in things that make a difference in quality or accuracy and I don't think trimming straight walled cartridge cases is one of those.
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11390 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question |
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Yup...I weigh EVERY powder charge, I clean primer pockets on all cases and I trim revolver, rifle and .45 ACP cases.
It works for me. But to each his own.
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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