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Elvis wrote:

these bullets look to be ideal in a search n destroy type role. they SHOULD be simply awesome on feral goats.

Elvis, I agree with your point. I haven't gotten back out to shoot with these bullets. I've been consumed by the 6.8mm which seems to have all that is needed out to 300 yards for hunting deer. I've focused on the Barnes 129 LRX in my .270 which has been very accurate. I shot a deer in the neck at 300+ yards with it last month. Still like those Hornady GMXs which have done way better than the Barnes in the .243 testing I've been doing.

The 2014 September issue of American Rifleman has an article on the AccuBond Long Range bullets. The author only repeated Nosler's marketing claims. I wonder if they print the letter I send them.

It would cost a great deal of time and money to actually test the bullets with today's market. There is also the point that a second voice spewing the maler's line is good for the advertisers gracious ad campaign.

I've said it before Slim, and I'll continue to say it mate...journalists never let the truth get in the way of a good story. They write what they are told or what will keep them on the payroll.

Vince wrote:

journalists never let the truth get in the way of a good story. They write what they are told or what will keep them on the payroll.

I'm going to at least try to get the word out.

Slim, I know this is a old thread, but have you ever tried hunting or tested the 135 sierra match kings? I know they are not a hunting bullet, but I've had fantastic results on deer here in Florida. Pass thru's on every one. Massive tissue damage between the holes. The only other bullet I've ever shot that has compared with them are the nosler partitions. My boy shot a doe at 300 yards a few years back, hit the shoulder blade and the exit was just behind the last rib on the opposite side. I watched a puff of dust be kicked up behind the deer and initally thought he had missed. That was until the deer dropped in her tracks. It was obvious that the path of the bullet changed as the dust cloud was to the rear of the deer.

DS, I would love to test some of the 135 SMK. If you are willing to send me some I would be able to test them and post the results. Give me an IM if that is possible.

I have never tested an OTM that expands at the tip. They typically yaw then fragment from the middle. It sounds like the SMKs have a thinner copper jacket than the Berger .277 VLDs. The VLDs yaw 180 and exit tail first without expanding.

the A-Max is what the long range guys use over here in all sorts of cartridges.

No A-Max in .277

good...the Nosler ballistic tips are soft enough for me

The very low drag bullets (VLD) require a faster twist rate than a standard form bullet of the same length because the design of the VLD places the center of gravity much farther toward the base that others. With a standard twist rate for caliber the VLD bullets will not only tumble on impact with game (which is not necessarily a bad thing) but they are sensitive to upset during flight in the transonic range as well. When the VLD bullets slow to mach 1.25 they lose stability and are prone to flipping to a base first attitude. This undesireable effect continues until the velocity reaches about mack 0.75 where they again stabilize.

All bullets (except round balls) lose some stability in the transonic region but none to the extent of the VLD bullets. This can be overcome by using a faster twist rate which also prevents the bullet from tumbling on impact with game.

PaulS wrote:

All bullets (except round balls) lose some stability in the transonic region but none to the extent of the VLD bullets. This can be overcome by using a faster twist rate which also prevents the bullet from tumbling on impact with game.

PaulS, the first part of the above statement is true. However, the second part, preventing bullets from tumbling on impact, is not true. This is based on all the testing I've done with bullets and their terminal performance. The density difference between air and tissue (made mostly water) is too significant to be overcome just with typcial twist rates - its fluid dynamics. The bullet must shorten in length and increase in diameter to remain stable in the terminal phase. I find OTMs yaw on impact and either break/fragment from the middle or remain intact and exit tail first. I recover their tips still intact.

Slimjim,
We all have our own experiences and interpret them the best we can. My experience with my fackler box and in game is different from yours. I extend that experience to the VLD bullets without actually testing it with faster twist rates. The OTM can be controlled with a faster spin rate both in the air and on target. The experience with 5,56 NATO round proves this.
My '06 has 1 in 10 twist and I can shoot 190 grain bullets at a target all day long with great results but firing them into my Fackler box shows that they tumble on impact with the water used.
The 200 and 220 grain spitzers keyhole in targets at 100 yards for me and the 220 RN does the same.

Going in the other direction the 158 JHC (pistol bullet) shoots well at both targets and into the Fackler box from my 358 Winchester at 2700+ fps. In spite of what I thought would happen, they mushroom great in the Fackler box. I know that hitting a bone with them would have disastrous results but for neck shots they are terrific.

I would expect it to take a 1 in 8 twist to stabilize the 30 caliber VLD bullets at impactwith game animals.

PaulS, it sound like what we have experienced has been very similar, e.g., VLDs yawing on impact. I've only shot and tested Berger VLDs in the .270 - they never have expanded an always yaw regardless of twist rate and mv. 7mm VLD users are annealing their bullets to get them soft enough to fragment. Since I haven't tested .308 VLDs, I can share stability information for .308 monolithic bullets. Lets take the 165 TTSX. Its 1.388" long and when fired at 3100 fps in a 1:10 twist has a stability factor of 1.8. If the twist is increased to 1:8, the stability factor is 2.8. On impact that same bullet increases in diameter to .640" and shrinks in length to .75". The stability factor of that bullet is 46.8 - a 20 fold increase. For a bullet to remain stable in tissue, it must reduce in length and expand in diameter very quickly or it tumbles. A 1:8 will reduce its yaw rate, but I don't think its going to make the bullet stable. I'm not about to buy a custom barrel to test it, though I might get on of the CFD guys at work to model it.