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when is it to much gun.
Big Game Hunting topics that dont fit other categories
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

surfdog wrote:
Too much Gun? Oxymoron.

Thats true aslong as long as you dont care how much meat you lose Laughing

And welcome to the forms Surfdog Very Happy Enjoy your say Very Happy

Dimitri

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

We must maintain some sense of reason here...I would not go after Praire Dawgs with a .45-70 no matter how accurate it was. And on the other side of the coin I would not go after an elephant with a .177 (That's a BB gun to those that don't know the calibre)...I would go after most game using the most effective calibre not to exceed the ridiculous in either direction...Like Dimitri, I can't see going after a deer with a large bore rifle (unless it was a primitive hunt). And I would think that a .22-250 is the wrong calibre to use on larger game also. Let's see...Where did I read that??? The .22-250 would probably go right through and never stop the animal (small hole in/small hole out and no bleed out)...Now we have a wounded deer running around loose...Great!!! A good rifle for the particular animal you are after must have the capibility to open up inside the animal with deep penetration and/or after opening up (mushroom) pass through. If it doesn't open up it is going to be a wounded animal that will need a lot of tracking...And may never be found...

I cringe every time I hear of someone bragging that they use a 82-260 (fictional) to hunt deer or other like game. And at the same time I aslo cringe even more when I hear of someone bragging that they use a .22 on large game. In my (not so) humble opinion this is really pure stu...(Better not say it as I might offend someone...)

GADDAY VINCE

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

I agree with you Bushy, I also believe a .22 cal is too small for big game. And you are correct about being careful what you say, some people are easily offended .......... Very Happy

Choppers are too much gun for big game hunting I think.

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Last edited by 1895ss on Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:20 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

My general thoughts personally are (Caliber size of the bullet not the name):

Big game from 243 to 338 and the 45-70.
------>Most of the larger calibers require alot of pratice to shoot them right so I'd rather take something smaller but thats just me personally as I dont see the point of taking a 375 H&H if you cant do have decent groups. Cool

Small/Medium game from 224 to 300.
------>A 300 might be over kill but if you got a 30-06 practicing on PD's can be good for you as the more getting used to your rifle the better. Laughing

Not counting muzzle loaders and shotguns in my list Very Happy

And no need to go into the large super mags that recoil too much for you to get groups under 2 inchs at 100 yards, 50BMG (even with FMJ's it will make a big hole Shocked ) or the 115mm Feild gun Shocked

PS if I offended anyone sorry. Sad

Dimitri

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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:18 am    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

So then I guess that when I use a 375 H@H or 458 Lott on deer , that's " too much gun " ..
Sorry no such critter as too much gun .. Many degrees of wounded , only one degree of dead ..
235 soft points at 2700 or so out of the 375 damage a lot less meat than you think ..
Jack

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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

That is very true GroovyJack....and if ya do a neck shot, the shock and energy would definately put the deer down before the wound would Cool A .338 Win shooting a federal HE TBBC i know does the same Cool

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

GroovyJack,

If you can actually get Minute of deer with a 375 use it. Smile

Its just that on alot of hunting/firearm boards online people that buy them show some nasty groupings because of the recoil of it. Shocked

Dimitri

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

GroovyJack wrote:
" too much gun " ..
Sorry no such critter as too much gun .. Many degrees of wounded , only one degree of dead ..
Jack

Well put I agree Jack dead is dead.
Joe

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

"Too much gun" is when a shooter reaches a point he cannot accurately fire said gun with reasonable proficientcy. I for example, do not shoot really large bore rifles well... and I can guarentee you all I couldnt hit a barn with a .458 LOTT. I HATE heavy recoil from firearms and am prone to flinching a bit. I totally respect those who can however shoot the bigbores consistantly. I can play connect the dots with my smaller rifles and its those I choose to hunt with.

As far as "overkill" yes it exists but its situational. I would define it to be killing an animal in such a way there that there is no recoverable assets from it. On a Prarie Dog where you dont care about recovering anything then there is no such thing as overkill... however hitting a deer with an explosive round or even Bushy's howitzer is overkill because the animal is totally destroyed with no recoverable parts.

.375 H&H is as large of a non-muzzleloader type weapon as I'd personally ever want to use.


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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

Actually Dimitri , minit of deer is not difficult , large caliber rifles are much more accurate than people give them credit for ..
One reason most people have a problem shooting big bores , is poor stock design .. the cheek piece should be slanted lower in the front to keep the stock from kissing your face , should have as high a comb as the rearward bolt stroke will allow , this keeps recoil straight back into your upper body and shoulder , and minimizes muzzle jump .. the weight of the stock should be between your hands , with a straight design ..
Another is the obsession of shooting from the bench in a sitting position , this makes felt recoil very much worse with a large caliber rifle .. A "good " bench is one where you can stand behind the rifle , not sit .
Dallan pretty well sums up " too much gun " , it's what you can shoot well ..
As well as overkill ..
Another issue is most large caliber rifles are far to light in weight , and this has a lot to do with the horrific recoil you speak of .. Granted they are not easy on the shoulder , but a rifle of the proper weight is a pleasure to shoot ..
Jack
Dimitri , I dont try for sub moa groups but the 375 H@H or 458 Lott , either one can do 1.5" or less at 100 yards easy ..

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

Neat well thanks for the reply GroovyJack! Very Happy

Quote::
Another issue is most large caliber rifles are far to light in weight , and this has a lot to do with the horrific recoil you speak of .. Granted they are not easy on the shoulder , but a rifle of the proper weight is a pleasure to shoot ..

Kind of like how 50BMG rifles weight 30lbs I take it ?? Confused

Dimitri

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Last edited by Dimitri on Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

GroovyJack wrote:
Actually Dimitri , minit of deer is not difficult , large caliber rifles are much more accurate than people give them credit for ..

That's right. My 45-70 will put 3 bullets touching or next to touching each other at 100 yards all day long if I do my part. Not bad for a .45 cal with lots of recoil. I do have a 2x7 scope on it not open sites because my eyes won't focus on the rear site anymore. As far as meat damage, you can eat right to the hole. I would say there is less damaged meat on deer with my 45-70 then with my 30-06.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

Getting old 1895shhshh??? Look at the other topic on marlins and let's hear it from you...

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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:

Kind of like how 50BMG rifles weight 30lbs I take it ?? Confused

Dimitri

30 pounds Shocked That's a heavy nifty fifty your thinkin' 'bout.....Mine only weighed 22.......and no help from jenny craig or slim fast either ROFL

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: when is it to much gun. Reply with quote

The Barrett so call "light fifty" wtf Very Happy are 28lbs ROFL

The AR-50's weight 41lbs Shocked

What were you using ?? Confused

Dimitri

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