Another "cleaning" accident

inthedark · Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

I don't think that it is archaic and I agree with you wholeheartedly that we use all the skills in our inventory. Now for a walk down memory lane...didn't you just love "free fall" on the $1.13s LMAO

Vince · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

InTheDark wrote:

...didn't you just love "free fall" on the $1.13s LMAO

Mental block mate...you've lost me on this one.

Cheers, Vince

inthedark · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:15 am Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

Vince, you said you were a Track commander on a M113. Free Fall is what we wrote on the back of the ramp and on the engine panel in the drivers hatch to remind everyone that if you let the lock off that the ramp would drop because the hydraulic ram was pooched. Do you remember now?? lol
Those ramps were friggin HEAVY! especially when you only have three guys around to get it buttoned up.

Vince · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:13 am Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

OK...I'm with you now mate. Never had to put that on a ramp. Our $1.13's were grounded if the ram "went south". The RAEME guys were called in real quick to repair it because it was too difficult and slow to deploy a section through the battle door in a hurry, and it was considered to be a major safety issue. Biggest problem I ever had to deal with in my "bucket" was a fan gearbox shaft (apart from replacing the odd "thrown track"). The system got a batch of "soft" shafts in, and when fitted, they had a tendency to "round out" and make a terrible noise, and of course the fan wouldn't work which resulted in overheating. I was "slack towed" (cables instead of an A Frame) about 15km one day which resulted in the diff getting rather hot because we still had to ride the laterals...boy, did the Recovery Mech get his butt chewed over that one. The smell of over heated, burnt diff oil was still in the engine bay a year later. Bedded the recently rebuilt diff in nicely though. I could coax about 82 kph (51 mph) out of my carrier after that...but boy, the old right arm got a real workout at that speed "stabbing" the right lateral.

That's one thing I will say about the Aussie Army...if something went US (that was a safety issue or was needed) it was repaired pretty quickly. In fact I believe they "over service" most vehicles.

Cheers, Vince

Oletrapper · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

Without a doubt a terrible accident. What are the odds of that happening. I can't imagine, considering all the millions of rounds fired into the air by the taliban, sunnies, Shiites and others in the middle east and not a single reported death or injury. Oh well. Just a thought.

DallanC wrote:

Terrible accident however it was caused.

Mythbusters did a show on this concept a while back. It actually was pretty good scientifically. Their results:

Quote::

busted / plausible / confirmed

In the case of a bullet fired at a precisely vertical angle (something extremely difficult for a human being to duplicate), the bullet would tumble, lose its spin, and fall at a much slower speed due to terminal velocity and is therefore rendered less than lethal on impact. However, if a bullet is fired upward at a non-vertical angle (a far more probable possibility), it will maintain its spin and will reach a high enough speed to be lethal on impact. Because of this potentiality, firing a gun into the air is illegal in most states, and even in the states that it is legal, it is not recommended by the police. Also the MythBusters were able to identify two people who had been injured by falling bullets, one of them fatally injured. To date, this is the only myth to receive all three ratings at the same time.

Regardless firing in the air with anything other than a shotgun is a baaaaaad idea!.

inthedark · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

Vince wrote:

OK...I'm with you now mate. Never had to put that on a ramp. Our $1.13's were grounded if the ram "went south". The RAEME guys were called in real quick to repair it because it was too difficult and slow to deploy a section through the battle door in a hurry, and it was considered to be a major safety issue. Biggest problem I ever had to deal with in my "bucket" was a fan gearbox shaft (apart from replacing the odd "thrown track"). The system got a batch of "soft" shafts in, and when fitted, they had a tendency to "round out" and make a terrible noise, and of course the fan wouldn't work which resulted in overheating. I was "slack towed" (cables instead of an A Frame) about 15km one day which resulted in the diff getting rather hot because we still had to ride the laterals...boy, did the Recovery Mech get his butt chewed over that one. The smell of over heated, burnt diff oil was still in the engine bay a year later. Bedded the recently rebuilt diff in nicely though. I could coax about 82 kph (51 mph) out of my carrier after that...but boy, the old right arm got a real workout at that speed "stabbing" the right lateral.

That's one thing I will say about the Aussie Army...if something went US (that was a safety issue or was needed) it was repaired pretty quickly. In fact I believe they "over service" most vehicles.

Cheers, Vince

Quill shafts were my bane (sp?) They were hard to take out. You had to snake a piece of bailing wire into the access hole and lasso the remaining piece which has a spine and then tapers in the middle where it usually broke and snag the shaft. It was easy to put together. Right diffs were always the side that everyone had problems with no matter what army had them.
I got 80kph (50mph) out of my track in Germany when it got fixed properly. It was Charlie one one ( C Coy 4/8 Infantry) and it hadn't made a field problem in over two years I was told. It had always been towed out of the motor pool to the rail head, onto the train and was parked in the training area motor pool where it sat until the whole process was repeated again. I drew a good crowd of our battalion when we prepared to move. I started to bring C11 to life when I named her 'waschbar" german for 'Raccoon'. I drove her to the rail head, onto the train and she made the whole field problem without a hitch. The boys actually cheered us!
WE managed to have perfect battle runs at ALL of the ranges. I was very proud of her. All she needed was someone to care for her.

inthedark · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

Vince wrote:

OK...I'm with you now mate. Never had to put that on a ramp. Our $1.13's were grounded if the ram "went south". The RAEME guys were called in real quick to repair it because it was too difficult and slow to deploy a section through the battle door in a hurry, and it was considered to be a major safety issue. Biggest problem I ever had to deal with in my "bucket" was a fan gearbox shaft (apart from replacing the odd "thrown track"). The system got a batch of "soft" shafts in, and when fitted, they had a tendency to "round out" and make a terrible noise, and of course the fan wouldn't work which resulted in overheating. I was "slack towed" (cables instead of an A Frame) about 15km one day which resulted in the diff getting rather hot because we still had to ride the laterals...boy, did the Recovery Mech get his butt chewed over that one. The smell of over heated, burnt diff oil was still in the engine bay a year later. Bedded the recently rebuilt diff in nicely though. I could coax about 82 kph (51 mph) out of my carrier after that...but boy, the old right arm got a real workout at that speed "stabbing" the right lateral.

That's one thing I will say about the Aussie Army...if something went US (that was a safety issue or was needed) it was repaired pretty quickly. In fact I believe they "over service" most vehicles.

Cheers, Vince

Quill shafts were my bane (sp?) They were hard to take out. You had to snake a piece of bailing wire into the access hole and lasso the remaining piece which has a spine and then tapers in the middle where it usually broke and snag the shaft. It was easy to put together. Right diffs were always the side that everyone had problems with no matter what army had them.
I got 80kph (50mph) out of my track in Germany when it got fixed properly. It was Charlie one one ( C Coy 4/8 Infantry) and it hadn't made a field problem in over two years I was told. It had always been towed out of the motor pool to the rail head, onto the train and was parked in the training area motor pool where it sat until the whole process was repeated again. I drew a good crowd of our battalion when we prepared to move. I started to bring C11 to life when I named her 'waschbar" german for 'Raccoon'. I drove her to the rail head, onto the train and she made the whole field problem without a hitch. The boys actually cheered us!
WE managed to have perfect battle runs at ALL of the ranges. I was very proud of her. All she needed was someone to care for her. Very Happy

Ominivision1 · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

After thinking about this, it doesn't matter if the firearm was a muzzleloader, modern firearm (smokeless powder) or air-powered. Once the projectile leaves the barrel, other forces act equally no matter what the propellent was.

I than ran a load thru "load from a disk" with the 45/70

Here's the 1830 fps result:

Sight-IN Data : Instrumental Readings Barometric Pressure : 29.76 in.Hg
Altitude : 700.0 ft Temperature : 52 °F
Humidity : 60 % Angle of Site : 0.0 deg
Wind Speed : 0.0 km/h Direction of Wind : 0.0 deg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullet : .457, 330, LYM LFNHP 457122
Bullet Weight : 350.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity : 1830.0 ft/s
Ballistic Coefficients
BC1 = 0.270, @V > 549 m/s
BC2 = 0.267, @V > 427 m/s
BC3 = 0.265, @V > 0 m/s
Drag Model used : G1
Sectional Density of Standard Projectile : 1 lb./sq.in.
File: G1-SAAMI Standard model

Calculate Maximum Horizontal Range :

Maximum Horizontal Range ............ 3111 yd (1.7676 miles)
Angle of Elevation .................. 34.61 deg
Angle of Descent .................... 64.71 deg
Total Flight Time ................... 25.37 sec
Impact Velocity ..................... 355 ft/s
Impact Energy ....................... 180.05 ft-lbs
Vertex Height ....................... 909 yd
Vertex Range ........................ 1952 yd
Velocity at Vertex .................. 340 ft/s
Time to Vertex ...................... 10.64 sec

And the results prove that the bullet will carry beyond 1 1/2 miles if elevation is held high enough and I was surprised at the range. Plus the bullet is still carrying lots of energy on impact.

Aloysius · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

Well, I'm not so surprised. I ones read about a hit on a man's high target at 1,5 miles and the flighttime was about 15 seconds. Doesn't seem so much till you hear they did it with iron sights...

stovepipe · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

Can't remember which but I've seen military rifles with a plunging fire flip-up sight for group valleys etc. VERY lethal. Short of dead verticle all center fire rifle rounds are lethal and will kill, that's a fact.

And, the moron who did the ND should be tarred and feathered and given over to the mourning family's relatives for propper disposal. WTF over???

inthedark · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

The old 303's with the ramp rear sight went from 200yds to 1000 or 1200yds. As for oletrapper's comment, there was a CBS report from Iraq back when Hussain was in power before the 1st gulf war took place that reported that there was always people hurt or killed from falling bullets from the perchant of arabs firing their weapons in the air and that it was common and not pursued criminally by the authorities.

English Mike · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

stovepipe wrote:

Can't remember which but I've seen military rifles with a plunging fire flip-up sight for group valleys etc. VERY lethal. Short of dead verticle all center fire rifle rounds are lethal and will kill, that's a fact.

And, the moron who did the ND should be tarred and feathered and given over to the mourning family's relatives for propper disposal. WTF over???

Volley sights on the SMLE:

stovepipe · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

That's it! Good find mate.

inthedark · Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

Mikey ...You're the man! I was thinking of the slide type on the #4MK1, #'s 5,6,7 found both at the very rear of the action with the 200yard battle sight and then you flip up the sight to expose the adjustable long range sight. There is also a variant form in the SMLE 1895 to 1920's that has an adjustable ramp sight that can be adjusted by pressing in on the right side of the slide and sliding it forward towards the muzzle to increase the range and to the rear to decrease range. You are also able to roughly adjust the sight and then rotate the detented screw on the left side for fine adjustments.

Pumpkinslinger · Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Another "cleaning" accident

This really deserves another thread but... I'm really disappointed in the quality of these pics but they show the details OK.

1918 SMLE rear sight, set at 1000 yards:

Same SMLE sight showing the fine adjustment wheel:

Swiss K31 rear sight:

Russian M91/30 rear sight from 1943: