Vince wrote:

I load 110gn HP Varminter in my 30.30 and they are great...very accurate, easy on the shoulder and are rather devastating on smaller light skinned game. I load them over 35 gr of AR2206H (marketed as H4895 in the US). I agree with Paul...H4895 is a nice accurate powder for these light projectiles in the 30.30. Being a SP HP they are safe to use in the magazine of a Winchester Model 94. Cheers, Vince

That's a nice looking home-rolled cartridge Vincent...

HEY GELAN...ALOYS AND tlo7mm NEED YOUR ASSISTANCE WITH A SUBSONIC BLOOMPH ROUND MATE.

Seriously though guys...Gelan has put a massive amount of development/testing into some subsonic loads for his .300 Whisper and (I think) a 45.70...he is the subsonic guru.

Cheers, Vince

Well it might be fun just to discuss about subsonic reloads or the requirements for such loads.
On one hand I would say a heavy bullet and a fast twist could be of great help, but then there is the smoothbore with even a heavier bullet and no twist at all...
That's the nice thing about reloading: you never know it all

I picked up a box of 250 count cast 30-30 bullets today that I cannot wait to try out. I am looking at getting some more in the near future.

I hope you chose a heavy weight? On the other hand, that little one used for the .30 M1 is also a good and very cheap plinker...

right now I have a box of lightweight cast plinkers but I am going to get some heavy bullets for hunting to load. I am also thinking I am going to look into getting molds and all the stuff to make my own cast bullets for the 30-30.

If you can afford jacketed bullets tlo, that is the better option. That is not to say that cast boolits aren't accurate or suitable for hunting, they sure are, and I use them. However, unless you plan on shooting a heap of cast boolits, the expense of purchasing the moulds, lead pot, bullet alloy, gas checks, lube sizer and suitable dies will very quickly add up beyond what you would pay for jacketed bullets.

If you really want to cast, don't let me stop you...I cast, but then again I started when I was pistol shooting and shot between 200 and 300 rounds a week, which made it extremely cost effective. Also, before you venture into the world of casting, read up on the subject, gather as much info and knowledge as you can because there are quite a few little idiosyncrasies and tricks that you will need to know to make life easier and your boolits a better product.

Cheers, Vince

thanks vince, I have been kind of checking into it. I am also considering casting for a .357 also but I just may buy bullets casted already. I am not sure, I just have been thinking about it.
I bought Badman Bullets and they are pretty reasonable in price. I may just stick with jacketed bullets also.
I don't know really, I am just toying around with the idea.

If you shoot heaps of target .357 Mag loads, then by all means give casting a go...it will save you money. I used to cast two different boolits for my .357 Mag, a 124gn Conical 9mm (sized to .357) and a 150gn SWC. Neither used a gas check, but they were only target loads...and both very accurate. The alloy I used is an Aussie version of the Lyman #2 alloy...hard enough to not lead and soft enough do the job.

Now...casting for rifle is a very different kettle of fish. You need a good hard alloy and they will need to be gas checked. I found that the accuracy from my cast boolits in my Model 94 30.30 are not as good as jacketed bullets. I cast 150gn .308 Flat Nosed GC boolits from an RCBS mould. They were very accurate in my Thompson Center Contender in 30.30 but for some reason the Model 94 doesn't seem to like them as much.

Cheers, Vince

Vince wrote:

HEY GELAN...ALOYS AND tlo7mm NEED YOUR ASSISTANCE WITH A SUBSONIC BLOOMPH ROUND MATE. Seriously though guys...Gelan has put a massive amount of development/testing into some subsonic loads for his .300 Whisper and (I think) a 45.70...he is the subsonic guru. Cheers, Vince

You rang?

Ok, subsonics for 30-30?

Trailboss would be great to use IF your rifle is in good condition and able to withstand the spike pressure of the very quick powder burning.
Not having know more of the background for this load, I cannot elaborate on the loads.

For a good subsonics load, it is recommended to use nitro based FLAKE type powder rather than ball or stick type.
The idea is to ensure all the powder burn within the strongest part of the barrel and thus letting the projectile to coast through the rest of the barrel and to the target.


Subsonic loads for hunting is totally different than subsonic loads for target shooting.

In target shooting, well, you just got to be accurate.

In hunting, you want to ensure QUICK kill and thus would try to either shooting as accurate as possible to the vital area (usually heart and brain), or create as large a wound as possible to the lesser vital areas (lung, nerve joints in the neck etc), or create a massive wound that would bleed profusely and thus ensure quick death, and the last one can be achieved by either tumbling the projectile or with massive weight, break the back bone of the animal.

So to ensure your projectile is able to deliver the required energy to achieve your goal, you would then wish to deliver as high energy as possible downrange.
Minding the fact that energy calculation is E = ½mv² when you have low V(velocity) you want to increase M (mass or weight) to increase E (energy).

Thus in subsonics hunting you would usually use the heaviest boolits available.
On my 300 whisper and 308W, I use a .309 cal 250 grain cast boolit that is 34mm (1.34 inch) long.
The weight of the boolit is definitely much higher than the normal for the caliber.
And in addition to that, the length to diameter of the boolit would ensure tumbling at the slightest interference.

On my 4570, I use 500 grain boolits with huge gaping hollow point, here the projectile looks squat and stocky compared to the above example, and thus it would not tumble.
On the other hand, the large hollow point will definitely expand due to the huge size.


I do not have 30-30, but I could help to calculate THEORETICALLY on the energy and velocity given a particular boolit weight, length, powder load and length of barrel.

Geland, just to show I read it carefully: I think in our part of the world Einstein recommended to divide by 2, so E=mv²/2

And the part I don't understand is about this tumbling. What about the length to diameter ratio? When I think about tumbling I think about twist and speed...
And where they make it more difficult to me is when they recommend a fast twist for the longer and lighter monolythic bullet which wuld translate itself as an improved straight line inside the body of an animal.

And for your Whisper: I didn't know there were 250 grs bullets in .309, but when have have such a mould, ever tried to cast "lead-free" in tin? (or better 92 % tin or so for better casting)

And sorry: we have an idiom that says: "1 fool can ask more than 10 wise men could answer." I already know the fool, are you better then 10 wise men?

Aloys wrote:

...And sorry: we have an idiom that says: "1 fool can ask more than 10 wise men could answer." I already know the fool, are you better then 10 wise men?

I have a saying along those lines as well Aloys...

"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask...better to ask a silly question than make a stupid mistake".

When Gelan mentions tumbling, it means when the nose of the bullet comes into contact with something, which causes the nose of the bullet to slow down, causing the tail of the bullet, still travelling at the faster speed, to start to overtake the nose of the bullet, causing the bullet to turn end over end, or tumble like a gymnast.

Albert Einstein, voted to man most likely to amount to nothing at school, his equation, as I remember it, is E=mv² or Energy=Mass x Velocity squared...but I could always, of course, be wrong.

Cheers, Vince

Hi Aloys,

Yes you are right..
I am not trying to short change Einstein.
I was typing E = ½mv²
but somehow the ½ didn't show up??
Ok its fixed now. Thanks!

I have a custom mold made by NOE that casts 250gn. (247gn with gas check tail) its quite a good mold.
Noe has just finished their second run on this mold, it is one of their most popular mold.

I cast an equivalent to Lyman #2 alloy, it has about 5% tin.
tin can be really expensive and additional tin over 5% do not really help much on the flow of the alloy.

Well, after Vince's reaction I looked it up and now I'm confused. Einstein did say E=mc² as total energy and in my head someone is ringing E=mv²/2 as kinetic energy.
Let's only remember that speed has more influence on kinetic energy than the weight (or mass).

And for tin: you should not compare with the price of lead, but compare the price of a tin bullet with such a monolythic brass one. And some day (already started in Germany!) some stupid guy will try to stop the use of lead in bullets as they already did with shot in several countries. And that's the day you should have a few rounds with tin bullets in your pockets to show when you get somekind of control...