HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 198
BOT: 1
Total: 199
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Photo Albums
05: Forums
06: Photo Albums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Photo Albums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Home
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Home
20: Photo Albums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Your Account
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Home
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Your Account
39: Home
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Your Account
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Photo Albums
48: Home
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Photo Albums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Home
58: Your Account
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Home
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Photo Albums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Photo Albums
71: Forums
72: Home
73: Your Account
74: Forums
75: Your Account
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Photo Albums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Photo Albums
84: Home
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Home
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Your Account
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Home
96: Home
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Home
104: Photo Albums
105: Your Account
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Home
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Photo Albums
112: Home
113: Forums
114: Home
115: Your Account
116: Forums
117: Your Account
118: Your Account
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Home
124: Forums
125: Your Account
126: Home
127: Forums
128: Your Account
129: Your Account
130: Forums
131: Your Account
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Photo Albums
136: Home
137: Home
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Photo Albums
141: Forums
142: Home
143: Photo Albums
144: Your Account
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Your Account
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Your Account
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Your Account
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Your Account
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Home
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Photo Albums
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Photo Albums
174: Your Account
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Home
178: Your Account
179: News
180: Forums
181: Photo Albums
182: Home
183: Your Account
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Statistics
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Home
198: Forums
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Im all confusticated!!!!!!
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:51 am    Post subject: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Just been delving into my reloading manuals and looking at Hodgdon h4831 which looks to be just the ducks nuts as it gives better velocity than nearly every other powder listed Very Happy so I order myself a lb tin....
now curiosity got the better of me so Im browsing the load data here and someone says that it is the same powder as ar2213sc????
well hang on a minute wtf if its the same powder...how come the data is different???
Ive used ar2213 before with good results and its easy to get over here,the H4831 on the other hand is not listed but Ive ordered some from local sports shop.
What gives here guys?????

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

You got it mate...H4831 is AR22123sc.

Email inbound.

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 6396
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Mate, all powder manufacturer is worried about getting sued for publishing too high a load.
Most of them are retracting their load figure down to fit the lowest denominator.

You got to do your own load development or forever suffers the consequence of blooompfth..

Hows that for further megaultraconfusticatoring?

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
dhc4ever
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2944
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:13 am    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Elvis,
Take a gander at the ADI reloading site and look up the powder equivalents, AR2213sc and H4831 are side by side, there are no other powders listed in that row.
H4831, made in oz, sold in the USA, bought by kiwi's and 5 middlemen :-)

_________________
Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Here is a link to Hodgdons web site where it shows H4831sc and ar2213sc to be the same powder in the msds sheets. H4831 and ar2213 are the same, the sc means "special cut".

www.hodgdon.com/msds.html

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3323
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Me thinks you got your "special cut"

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Suzanne wrote:
Me thinks you got your "special cut"

Confused Confused Confused wtf Shocked Shocked

Do you know something we don't Suz? Laughing Laughing

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

The "SC" stands for "short cut" as in, they cut the original granuals in half for a much denser powder charge to aid in not having a compressed charge.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Bushy's right, sc stands for "short cut" not special cut.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MacD
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 1052
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Guess the lawyers in OZ haven't put the wind up ADI's management yet. The problem is you have to start somewhere. Some people swear by old manuals and others say that modern powder is more potent so don't use old load data. Online references outside of the powder and bullet makers sites are iffy. Since I have yet not been able to find an accurate load within modern load data limits I am happy. Once I start loading for the 35 Rem I will be trying for the best muzzle energy combination of bullet weight and speed as I intend to use it for moose and caribou hunting. Given the tender rim and the possible tendency for split necks that are sometimes seen in this cartridge I expect I will be doing a lot of careful working up. I have some older factory rounds for comparison and some new Hornady ones as a guide. The action and barrel on the 760 are not a concern as they were used for more powerful calbers.

_________________
La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle)
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:

well hang on a minute wtf if its the same powder...how come the data is different???

Just accept that it is and it'll be less frustrating !!! Bang Head
You know the rules of re-loading.........start low work up.


I've got 5 different re-loading manuals....... all 5 will sometimes give different max when making comparisons.

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

ByTheWay Elvis...What are you loading...?

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

In a long talk with Hodgdon and the Sierra bullet smiths I found that there are only two reasons for the lower charges in the newer manuals.
1. Some guns, like the 357 magnum, have strengths that fall in every catagory from puny to very strong. Smith and Wesson along with a couple of other gun manufacturers have made "marginal" guns in the 357 Mag. Rather than leave the original SAAMI pressure levels at 47000 cup they have petitioned to have the pressures lowered for their guns - and won. The SAAMI pressure limits on the 357 mag have dropped to just 30000 psi and although the original loads are safe in the stronger guns they can cause big problems in the weaker guns. Sierra listed 19.6 grains of H110 / WW296 in their 1985 version of their manual but list a lot lower load in their current manual. That is why I called them. After a couple of long conversations I was assured that the powder had not changed and that my load would still be just as safe in my gun as it was before (I was not loading the maximum but close)

2. The conversion from cup to psi measurements brought with it some surprises. A lot of the old loads were well above the SAAMI maximum pressures but no one ever knew it until they could measure the pressures per split millisecond. The copper crusher gave an average maximum force reading while the peizoelectric method gives much higher definition of the actual curve of pressure over time.
Some loads would spike very high for just an instant while others were moderate for longer periods but they both gave the same pressure measurements with copper crushers. When SAAMI started examining barrels that had been used for years with the old loads they found that the chambers were full of micro-fractures that would ultimately lead to catastrophic failures of the gun. On those loads they reduced the charges of powder or did away with those that were known to be ill-suited for the cartridge as we understand it now.

The manufacturer's manuals are just doing what they have to in order to keep the data at or below SAAMI standard pressures. A few of the old load data have been replaced with hotter loads but some have been decreased. I like using the newer powders so in most cases I have to use the newer information but for my 357 I can use the older data without a problem. I have never had a sticky case or short life of a cartridge so I will keep the very accurate load that I developed in my gun.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
ByTheWay Elvis...What are you loading...?
.270winchester. my Nick Harvey manual has loads for this powder. the funny/strange thing is in the text he mentions what a great load with the 170grn speer powered by this powder is but then doesnt list it in the data section Embarassed
when I looked realy carefully the loads that used the same weight of powder had different velocities Embarassed so it seems that at some time they were different. I have just got off the phone to my supplier and she will have me a 1lb tin after easter $60NZ which is about $8 cheaper than elsewhere for any powder.
I had a good run with AR 2213 in this rifle but changed to AR2206h because it loads every calibre I have.
now I want some good powder for the old girl (just because) and hopefully it will restore my faith in her Very Happy I do like the sound of a 170grn speer doing 2800fps Shocked might boot a bit but I dont feel recoil when on an animal. paper is a different story Embarassed .

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Im all confusticated!!!!!! Reply with quote

Elvis, you sure it's 170gr? I was over at speers website and the biggest is 150gr for the 270 winchester.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.