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IMR3031
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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MacD
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: IMR3031 Reply with quote

With powder supplies tight I have taken what I can find. Today I was able to get some IMR 3031. Does anyone have experience with this powder? My manuals list it for many calibers but is it better for some?

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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

Very Happy .223,308,I believe 30-30win. Check out the hodgdon/dupont website for reloading/by caliber.They have all kinds of info by bullets man/weight. Very Happy

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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

MacD wrote:
With powder supplies tight I have taken what I can find. Today I was able to get some IMR 3031. Does anyone have experience with this powder? My manuals list it for many calibers but is it better for some?

This link should be of help to you Mac...

Powder Equivalents

EDIT:
From the Hogdon Manual...

IMR 3031™ A propellant with many uses, IMR3031 has long been a favorite of 308 Match shooters using 168-grain match bullets. It is equally effective in small-capacity varmint cartridges from 223 Remington to 22-250 Remington, and it’s a great 30-30 Winchester powder.

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Last edited by Vince on Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

I use it in a very accurate load for my Marlin 1895s, under a 400 grain JSP.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
This link should be of help to you Mac...

Powder Equivalents

EDIT:
From the Hogdon Manual...

IMR 3031™ A propellant with many uses, IMR3031 has long been a favorite of 308 Match shooters using 168-grain match bullets. It is equally effective in small-capacity varmint cartridges from 223 Remington to 22-250 Remington, and it’s a great 30-30 Winchester powder.

Vince, don't read too much into those "equivalent" powders. Although some are the same powder in a different box some are very different and you must use the data for the powder you have.
HP-38 and WW231 are identical powders
H110 and WW296 are identical powders but listed with them is H and IMR 4227 and AA1680 and they are all very different.

I didn't go through the whole list but from what I did see it would be best to treat them all as different powders that are used in similar cartriges. The data for H4227 and IMR4227 cannot be interchanges without dramatic pressure differences. Just because they are close on the burn speed charts doesn't mean you can interchange data.

Be careful, live long abnd shoot well.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

PaulS H110 and winchester 296 have different load data in the latest lyman load manual.......
with my recent go at getting h4831 I am getting wary of the term "its the same powder" if its the same why different load data????

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

I agree Paul. The only thing I use the Powder Equivalents chart for is to get a basic idea of the burn speed of a particular powder and see what powders are similar.

For arguments sake, I know Bench Mark 2 powder, and I now know that IMR 3031 is similar in speed, meaning it is most likely suitable for similar calibres as BM 2. As they state on that chart...These tables are only approximate, showing equivalent values within about 5%.

When it comes to actual load data, I take it straight from the relevant manual for the powder I am using, starting low and working up.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

I believe H110 and W296 are completely different powders.
They have similar speed of burning, but with much different loading density.

The chart Vince shown is for speed of burn rather than the bulk density.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

gelandangan wrote:
I believe H110 and W296 are completely different powders.
They have similar speed of burning, but with much different loading density.

The chart Vince shown is for speed of burn rather than the bulk density.

I have been told for years that H110 and W296 are identical. I even had a Winchester rep tell me that they both came out of the same nozzle, just into different bottles depending on if for Hodgdon or Winchester. Not too long ago a Propellent Profile column in Handloader magazine confirmed this.

It is true that powders such as H4895 and IMR4895 are not the same. This is also true of powders such as IMR4064 and AA4064. Their burning rates are similar, but not identical. When using loading data for one with the other powder, loads should be reduced and worked up.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

Thanks for the input guys. I have the Lee second edition manual. I also use the Lyman oneand refer to the powder manufacturer's sites. The Lee manual is simply a repeat of the powder makers information. What I find interesting in the lists is the comparisons of powders for the same bullet weight. Since powder volume, weight, pressure, seating depth and FPS is given I can see how these vary. With a lot of good judgement and an eye to always starting at the lightest load I use the charts as a poor mans load development source when I can't find a load for my specific combination of powder, bullet etc. I find I often have to resort to this method for cast bullets. Drawing on the experience of others is one way to validate or test my thinking. IMR3031 is listed in many calibers, but not consistemtly in relation to other powders. I am considering if I should be using it in my 35 Remington 760 with a 205 grain gas checked hard cast bullet. I haven't determined my starting point yet. I am a bit concerned that its burn rate may be high for use with cast but it appears to be a bulky powder and should fill a case better at lower charges. Since these are hard cast, the fast burning means higher peak pressures should result in better obturation early in the bullets trip down the bore. All this is simply theory. The proof will only be found on the range. Fun isn't it?

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

My oldest son bought an older marlin 336 jack handle with the micro-groves in 35 remington and this gun absolutely loves cast bullets (Lyman mold #358315) that clocks in at 206grs ahead of 35grs of Imr3031 good for 1900 fps using #2 alloy.

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

MacD wrote:
With powder supplies tight I have taken what I can find. Today I was able to get some IMR 3031. Does anyone have experience with this powder? My manuals list it for many calibers but is it better for some?


Most certainly...!!!
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

The question was asked at Hodgdon.com and the answer I got was that they were the same powder with different labels. The difference in the manuals comes from lot-to-lot variations and differences in equipment and the other variables that we all deal with. That is why they say to start low and work up to maximum while watching for the "normal signs of over-pressure.

I think Hodgdon got tired of answering emails and put the notice on their website that HP-38 and H110 are the same powders as WW231 and WW296 respectively. I think they also added WW760 and H414 as the same powders.
I will have to go and check it out.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

Well, I looked but there is no notice there, at least that I could find but if you look at their on-line reload data you will see the same loads and the same pressures for those powders. You can also use the "contact us" to ask them yourself - that's what I did and the answer came from Chris Hodgdon himself.

Have a great day!
Paul

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:50 am    Post subject: Re: IMR3031 Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
I think Hodgdon got tired of answering emails and put the notice on their website that HP-38 and H110 are the same powders as WW231 and WW296 respectively. I think they also added WW760 and H414 as the same powders.

Hodgdon puts out a yearly reloading magazine. In said magazine where H110 and Winchester 296 are listed for a given cartridge, you will find the data for each to be identical. Ditto with H414/Winchester 760 and HP-38/Winchester 231.

As for why other reloading manuals give different numbers for the identical powders; I think they just don't know any better.

As for the IMR 3031 question, years ago I tried it for 308 Winchester loads and wasn't very impressed with it. I still have a pretty full can of it from years ago. I've heard it's very good in 30/30 Winchester loads but haven't tried it for that yet.
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