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Max Overall Cartridge Length
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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BillPa
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Joined: Mar 17, 2005
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Overall Cartridge Length Reply with quote

Blaine, you are correct.
First, the Stoney point gage measures the distance from the cartridge head to a point FORWARD of tbe bullet ogive,not the actual distance. Its a relative measurement. Because of different ogive locations between bullets, even those from the same box ,the point where the bullet bottoms in the insert may vary. When seating bullets in a case you may notice the lengths vary somewhat. This is because the seater stem contacts the bullet before the ogive the same as the insert. To complicate matters even more, damaged tips add to the error going by the OAL.
I modify the inserts by opening them up close to the ogive diameter. I also make a pin to the bullet diameter or like Slamfire, use a bullet backwards. This give me the closest measurment possible with this tool. I use the same setup to measure the length of the bullet from its base to ogive and sort them according to this measurement.
When seating bullets, I use the COL, not the OAL as my seating depth. The only problem is with factory "Lawyer" chambers that they are usually throated long. Often its impossible to seat the bullets on the lands and still have any of it in the case neck and/or work through the magazine.
Making modified case isn't a big job. The tap size is 5/16-36 TPI using a .297" drill bit to drill out the primer pocket.. They are avalible from MSC. Resize a case, seat and pull the bullet to expand it, then finish opening the neck with some 320-400 sandpaper. I have a lathe, so I cheat a little and just bore'm out. I think making or having them made from your fired brass is best. The modified cases you buy are sized to minimum specs with the shoulders pushed back futher causing erroneous measurements. From the factory setup to mine, I've found as much a .025" difference in measurements.


Bill
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sniper
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Joined: Aug 18, 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Max Overall Cartridge Length Reply with quote

Hi, all. The Stoney Point headspace and OAL gauges are a goodness!
They have cut down my time and frustration a whole bunch. 'Course the old cut and try methods work too, just not as fast or accurately.

First, ANY of the reloading manuals (You do have a reloading manual, or three, right? You HAVE read it, haven't you? Not just the load section, either. ) will tell you that it is a rare rifle that works best with the bullet jammed into the lands. Pressures go crazy, and if you are working with near max loads, you could get hurt! Low pressure, cast bullet loads are the exception.

Most rifles shoot better with the bullet some distance from the lands. 010-.035 typically. Ross Seyfried opines that the correct bullet gap is of more importance to accuracy than all the messing about with primers, 1/10 grain differences in loads, or hiring Jennifer Lopez to breathe softly on your load will do--accuracy wise, you understand. Very Happy

The Stoney Point tool uses a prepared case to measure the 0 clearance distance from bullet to lands. I am too cheap to buy all the equipment needed to use the modded case.

Smoking the bullet/using magic marker, measuring the OAL, measuring the rifling marks, and subtracting that from the OAL to get the TRUE OAL gives me a headache! But it works.

I prefer to use several unsized cases with lightly crunched mouths, and bullets seated gently, then chambered carefully in my rifle, and as carefully extracted. I take measurements of the several cases with the Stoney Point OAL gauge and caliper to determine an average OAL, which, if done right, will give you a working zero clearance. Set your seating die to whatever bullet to land gap you like, and it is an arbitrary choice for the first one. I make it a practice to never go below a .010 gap. Set your calipers at that number--IT is SMALL! .005 needs a light behind the caliper to see it. A human hair is maybe .003 in. We are talking tiny little differences, here.

The Stoney Point OAL gauge measures distance from the ogive or near it on the bullet, so the distance from that diameterto the rifling is a constant and repeatable number, or close enough for 98% of the handloader's needs. Measure it once, pick your gap, and no matter what bullet you use from then on, the distance from the lands will be the same, if nothing else changes. If that distance is consistent, and accurate, you will never have trouble with overlength loads causing high pressure, no matter which bullet you choose.

You don't have to have the latest high-zoot caliper, either. I used a cheap plastic one from Montgomery Wards for years, till I got one of Midway's metal ones on sale. Both of them agree amazingly well. Close enough for any handloading exercise.

Just establish what bullet to land gap works best for you an your rifle,and your ammunition, and have at it!

The simple way: Buy a box of your favorite factory ammo for your Remchester, be sure it fits, measure the OAL with the Stoney Point, set your seating die to that length. Then go shooting!

It actually takes more time to tell about it than to do it. Good luck, whichever method you choose. Cool
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Elvis
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Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Overall Cartridge Length Reply with quote

hmmm the forums laziest reloader finally got around to measuring throat length in his old smoke pole thats hes been shooting for nearly 30 years!!!! good news is the rifling is still there and I can get a nosler B.T. projectile touching it with enough in the neck of the case to function well.
bad news is its about 3mm 1/8th inch too long for the magazine. gave me quite a shock when measured it (cleaning rod method) kind of explains why she likes the long fat round nose projectiles....not so much jump.
oh well mag length it will just have to be....

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PaulS
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Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Overall Cartridge Length Reply with quote

Elvis,
My old 03A3 jumps about 3/8" before contacting anything. I just load to the overall length in the load data and it still shoots 5/8" groups for me. I think its all in the powder and bullet getting along.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
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Elvis
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Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Overall Cartridge Length Reply with quote

its never bothered me Embarassed thus Ive never checked it!!! until now Sad
I should have a look with my 170s but at a guess they will be closer as they are just about parallel in the side wall.

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slimjim
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Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Overall Cartridge Length Reply with quote

We are never too old to learn! That is what makes life fun.

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