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Fireforming
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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MacD
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Just a thought but have you considered Trail Boss.? It takes up a lot of space but gives a pretty mild pressure.

I spent some time trying to find the case capacity of the 8x58rd for comparison to other cartridges used in vintage rifles with similar pressure limits. I know this isn't 100% valid but it does add to the data that can be fed into the grey matter. Unfotunately I wasn't successful.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Not considered but 12gr of Unique (or so) will work also. I don't have any Trail Boss but I've heard lots of people recommend it. I measured the case capacity on the reformed cases and it's approx. 60 grains and that's what Azar is using in his QuickLoad program. He's come up with some loads I'm gonna try once the weather gets better.

Thanks Mac
Suz

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Woke up this morning to another four inches of new snow - you could have kept it Suz....

Over the last three days we have gotten almost 12 inches - the car I drive is parked on the street and the wheels are nearly up to the axles in snow. 14" wheels and 25" tires. It is predicted to return one last time tonight/tomorrow morning and then become rain on Tuesday.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Been there done that Paulie.....ain't it fun? Today the freezzing rain got thawed out and we had ice bombs dropping out of the trees. I was able to get the 4x4 out and about so I cruised the neighborhood and it looks like a bomb went off around here. Trees and tree parts every where. You have to weave your way around in the streets. My power never went out but there's plenty of homes that are going to wait a few days before they have power again. If you're getting freezing rain park the car under cover or you'll regret it. It's going to be above freezing here all week, with rain.......can't wait


Suz

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

It's snowin'....Again.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

It got to 54+ today and I got some more insulation up in the garage. Just a bit of a sprinkle for rain and an hour of moderate winds from the "high wind" warning. It looks like spring has sprung around here, but I am not planting just yet.

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Paul
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Azar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Suz,

I'm glad we waited until you had the bullets in hand. The estimate of bullet length at 1.000" vs the actual 1.630" and COAL going from 3.090" to 2.902" changes things quite a bit.

Since one of the links you provided showed pressure tested data with Unique and a 190gr cast bullet perhaps that would be the best place to start. The QL data seems to correspond nicely with the pressure tested data.

Good luck and be safe!
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Yeah I wasn't thinking about seating depth and the round nose of this bullet makes it much shorter. The QL data is surprisingly close to the pressure test data, it really is a great tool. Too spendy for me but I wouldn't mind having it to play around with. Might need to get a chronograph too if I continue to fiddle with this stuff. I just need one good load for this rifle and then I'll be satisfied. Don't think I'll go for obsolete cartridges again, it's fun to research and learn a few things but none the less it's scary to have to experiment and find other ways to make things happen. Hope my pre-formed and self-formed brass survives and the bullet sizes and seating depths and powders......arrrggggg
Thanks so much for the help Azar, it boosts my confidence to have data that is so close to the pressure tested data. Still I'm going to rig a string to my trigger and stand behind my truck when I pull it. The action on this gun looks beautiful but it's 150yrs old so who knows.


Suz

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Azar
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

I don't blame you. A lanyard would be a good idea. It's a beautiful rifle. Hopefully, all goes well and nothing out of the ordinary happens.

Good luck.

Be safe.
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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Suz is going to put her string on a trigger and you hope that nothing out of the ordinary will happen???

And 1 advice I read many years ago in the Dixie catalog where Turner Kirkland wrote that you could always shoot these old calibers using blackpowder: just fill the case completely and push a soft lead pill on top (pay attention you never have empty space between BP and bullet!).
And I can assure you it's a lot of fun that way.
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Went out today to test fire, totally pleased! I loaded two types of reformed brass, 7.62x54r (Unique under a cast 196gr bullet) and 8x56rs (IMR4198 under a 200gr Nosler spitzer). I put a T-paper wad over the powder, as the amounts are darned small. Tied a string onto the trigger after mounting the rifle on my Caldwell rest but the trigger pull is so hard that I thought I would pull the entire rig off of the bench (and the string kept breaking). So I stood behind it and turned my head, pulled the trigger and it popped just fine.

I was concerned about rim thickness and actually the 7.62 brass (although shorter overall) seems to be the better choice, the primer backed out a bit on the 8mm brass, but the 8mm brass fits the chamber better. No splits or anything bad happened (both hands and eyes still intact) and it shot pretty good too.

Here's my target, the bottom 4 are the cast bullets and top ones are the Noslers, some upward stringing is my bench rest elevating itself, otherwise this is only at 25yds (I wanted to make sure to hit paper). I can't see the sights very well but I'm pleased and excited to go again!



Don't think I ever showed you guys this rifle. The one I did show was a Remington. This one is Swedish built (not Remington) and compared to my Remington it's like new and has great color case hardening.



Suz

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Looks very nice Suz, and its a shooter too.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

wow that is a nice looking shooting stick!!!!

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Wow. a respectable group.
Very nice gun.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Fireforming Reply with quote

Forgot to mention it's dated 1875. The Swedish and the Swiss military used a lot of heavy grease in their guns (where we use oil) and it sure does preserve the metal. I've seen some beaters too but to find these things in such good condition after 150yrs really says something about the care taken. This was a transition era also, going to bolt actions, so they didn't get as much real action under their belts.

Suz

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