HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 480
BOT: 1
Total: 481
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: News
02: Photo Albums
03: Forums
04: Home
05: Forums
06: Home
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Home
11: Your Account
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Your Account
17: Forums
18: Your Account
19: Forums
20: Home
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Your Account
24: Your Account
25: Your Account
26: Forums
27: Home
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Home
32: Forums
33: Your Account
34: Home
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Photo Albums
40: Your Account
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Home
45: Home
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Photo Albums
49: Photo Albums
50: Home
51: Your Account
52: Home
53: Forums
54: Photo Albums
55: Forums
56: Home
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Your Account
62: Forums
63: Home
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Home
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: News
77: Photo Albums
78: Your Account
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Home
82: Your Account
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Your Account
88: Forums
89: Photo Albums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Photo Albums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Your Account
103: Your Account
104: Your Account
105: Home
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Your Account
111: Home
112: Photo Albums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Photo Albums
116: Forums
117: Photo Albums
118: Forums
119: Home
120: Photo Albums
121: Photo Albums
122: Forums
123: Photo Albums
124: Home
125: Forums
126: Home
127: Your Account
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Your Account
132: Home
133: Your Account
134: Your Account
135: Home
136: Forums
137: Photo Albums
138: Photo Albums
139: Photo Albums
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Your Account
145: Forums
146: Your Account
147: Forums
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Photo Albums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Home
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: Photo Albums
172: Forums
173: Home
174: Your Account
175: Articles: Topics
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Your Account
181: Home
182: Forums
183: Statistics
184: Home
185: Photo Albums
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Photo Albums
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Your Account
202: Photo Albums
203: Photo Albums
204: Forums
205: Home
206: Home
207: Photo Albums
208: Forums
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Your Account
214: Home
215: Your Account
216: Your Account
217: Photo Albums
218: Home
219: Photo Albums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Photo Albums
224: Photo Albums
225: Your Account
226: News
227: Forums
228: Your Account
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Home
234: Photo Albums
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Home
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Your Account
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Your Account
251: Photo Albums
252: Forums
253: Home
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Home
258: Photo Albums
259: Forums
260: Home
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Your Account
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Forums
270: Home
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Photo Albums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Your Account
277: Forums
278: Photo Albums
279: Photo Albums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Home
284: Home
285: Home
286: Statistics
287: Forums
288: Home
289: Photo Albums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Home
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Your Account
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Your Account
301: Photo Albums
302: Forums
303: Home
304: Forums
305: Home
306: Photo Albums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Your Account
310: Forums
311: Forums
312: Photo Albums
313: Forums
314: Forums
315: Forums
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Forums
319: Forums
320: Home
321: Forums
322: Forums
323: Photo Albums
324: Your Account
325: Forums
326: Forums
327: Your Account
328: Photo Albums
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Home
332: Forums
333: Home
334: Your Account
335: Forums
336: Forums
337: Forums
338: Forums
339: Forums
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Home
346: Your Account
347: Forums
348: Forums
349: Home
350: Forums
351: Forums
352: Forums
353: Your Account
354: Forums
355: Forums
356: Forums
357: Your Account
358: Forums
359: Home
360: Forums
361: Photo Albums
362: Photo Albums
363: Forums
364: Forums
365: Forums
366: Forums
367: Photo Albums
368: Forums
369: Forums
370: Home
371: Forums
372: Forums
373: Home
374: Your Account
375: Home
376: Forums
377: Forums
378: Forums
379: Photo Albums
380: Photo Albums
381: Forums
382: Forums
383: Your Account
384: Forums
385: Photo Albums
386: Forums
387: Forums
388: Forums
389: Forums
390: Forums
391: Forums
392: Your Account
393: Forums
394: Forums
395: Home
396: Home
397: Your Account
398: Forums
399: Photo Albums
400: Forums
401: Forums
402: Forums
403: Photo Albums
404: Forums
405: Your Account
406: Forums
407: Forums
408: Forums
409: Forums
410: Forums
411: Forums
412: Your Account
413: Forums
414: Forums
415: Forums
416: Home
417: Forums
418: Forums
419: Forums
420: Photo Albums
421: Forums
422: News
423: Your Account
424: Forums
425: Your Account
426: Forums
427: Your Account
428: Your Account
429: Forums
430: Home
431: Forums
432: Forums
433: Forums
434: Forums
435: Forums
436: Forums
437: Your Account
438: Forums
439: Forums
440: Forums
441: Forums
442: Forums
443: Your Account
444: Forums
445: Forums
446: Forums
447: Forums
448: Photo Albums
449: Forums
450: Forums
451: Forums
452: Forums
453: Forums
454: Forums
455: Your Account
456: Forums
457: Forums
458: Home
459: Forums
460: Your Account
461: Photo Albums
462: Photo Albums
463: Your Account
464: Forums
465: Forums
466: Forums
467: Forums
468: Forums
469: Forums
470: Forums
471: Home
472: Your Account
473: Forums
474: Forums
475: Forums
476: Your Account
477: Forums
478: Forums
479: Forums
480: Forums
  BOT:
01: News

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

OK Slim would you have expected this from an AR?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1065
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: OK Slim would you have expected this from an AR? Reply with quote

Let me start by saying this was a very small sample size and the statistical significance of these values can be argued six ways to Sunday. I am shooting this in the prone position with a sling and iron sights. No other support or optics.

I have always loaded AR competition loads (23.2 gr. of 8208XBR, LC brass, Wolf Primer) for rapid fire to about 2.255” oal. This load holds the 2 MOA 10 ring if not the 1 MOA X ring in a service rifle target easily if I do my job. A while back a fellow competitor said he ran a test and showed that if he seated shorter than published OAL to meet magazine length he had tighter rounder groups in the rapid fire stages of the match. I never gave it much thought as the conventional wisdom is that the 77 grain HPBT match were not sensitive to jump at all. Just load at mag length and shoot it. I know VLD secant ogive bullets are very picky for jump but these 77HPBT bullets are pretty robust and not picky at all Right? I thought I would run a quick and dirty test to see what OAL my new barrel “liked “ best.

I was shooting at 100 yards at an SR-1 target. I shot 10 shots with 2.250” OAL in the center of the target and had a 2.0” group as a control.
I then cranked on the iron sights and put 20 clicks left windage and +25 elevation on the gun. I fired five shots of the load seated to 2.260” OAL. The aiming point and sight picture was the same as my control group but the bullets printed in the upper right hand corner of the target out in the white scoring rings.

Next I came down 25 clicks and shot 2.250" group. This printed at the X ring level but in the white at 9:00. The 5 shot group at 2.250” was also 2.0”. So… the group size of a five shot group is representative of what a ten shot group is.

I then came down 18 (to dead bottom) and fired 2.240" OAL group which printed in the lower left corner of the scoring rings in the white.

I then added 43 up (18+25) and 40 clicks right to get to the upper right corner and the 2.230” group was fired.

Down 25 to mid-line of target on 3:00 side for 2.220” OAL.

Down 18 to dead bottom for 2.210” group.

The results are shown in the table below for all five shots and the best four out of the five.


COAL 5 shots Best 4
2.260 1.2 1.1
2.250 2.0 1.2
2.240 1.2 1.0
2.230 1.2 0.5
2.220 2.2 1.5
2.210 2.2 2.2

The two real short ones are clearly not as good as the others. The 2.250” is not bad, but not as good as the other three. 2.260 2.240 and 2.230 are about the same in 5 shot measurements. The 2.230 groups roundness was better and half the size for best 4.

In the end… given this small sample… All the top 4 are really about the same. BUT – I will be loading 2.235” just in case.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: OK Slim would you have expected this from an AR? Reply with quote

hmmmmm, keep us informed.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: OK Slim would you have expected this from an AR? Reply with quote

Dawgdad wrote:
... 20 clicks left ... +25 elevation .... down 25 clicks ... down 18 ... added 43 up (18+25) ... Down 25 ... Down 18 to dead bottom

Wow, glad I completed higher level math! I will to go through this again.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: OK Slim would you have expected this from an AR? Reply with quote

Ok, caught my breath. Your rifle is doing pretty good. I've seen some report 2" variation in group size just due to COAL differences. COAL adjustment is the last step in load development that I perform to fine tune a load. Its particularly beneficial with Barnes TSX/TTSX bullets. They are even finding that Berger can benifit from benig further from the lands.

I just started a project on my 6.8mm AR to load up to 2.425" COAL. I modified my magazine and recievers to accomodate this. Most 6.8 bullets are way too far from the lands. I've already found much better accuracy. I've done this for hunting.

68forums.com/forums/sh...zine-COALs

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
dhc4ever
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2944
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: OK Slim would you have expected this from an AR? Reply with quote

Why the long throat on tne AR? You would think that with so many manufacturers someone would make a barrel to remedy this..

_________________
Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
Back to top
View user's profile
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: OK Slim would you have expected this from an AR? Reply with quote

The military specifies a long throat in order to get the higher velocity and handle the higher pressure loads. That is the main difference between a 5.56 chamber and the .223 chamber.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1065
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: OK Slim would you have expected this from an AR? Reply with quote

My rifles have a 223 Wylde chamber which has a long throat too like the 5.56 to accommodate 80 grain bullets loaded longer than magazine length which are single loaded longer distance shooting. (600yds.)

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: OK Slim would you have expected this from an AR? Reply with quote

dhc4ever wrote:
Why the long throat on tne AR? You would think that with so many manufacturers someone would make a barrel to remedy this..

I was addressing the issues with the 6.8mm SPC. Remington designed this cartridge but got the throat, primer size, and barrel twist wrong. The SPC II solves many of those issues and AR15Performance makes a 6.8 barrel with a shorter thoat because most of the .277 bullets used in the 6.8 have a shorter ogive than those used in the .270 Win.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
dhc4ever
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2944
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: OK Slim would you have expected this from an AR? Reply with quote

Well keep the info comming, you guys get to play with all the good toys, we all live vicariously through you lot since 1996 when most semi autos were banned. If you have a "genuine" reason and can jump through hoops like a trained seal, it can be done, but not easily for the general shooter.

_________________
Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 7 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.