HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 504
BOT: 1
Total: 505
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Your Account
02: Photo Albums
03: News
04: Forums
05: Photo Albums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Home
10: Home
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Your Account
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Home
26: Your Account
27: Photo Albums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Your Account
34: Home
35: Photo Albums
36: Your Account
37: Forums
38: Your Account
39: Your Account
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Photo Albums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Photo Albums
54: Your Account
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: News
66: Forums
67: Your Account
68: Home
69: Forums
70: Home
71: Forums
72: Home
73: Forums
74: Photo Albums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Home
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Home
88: Home
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Your Account
92: Your Account
93: Home
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Photo Albums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Photo Albums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Your Account
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Photo Albums
114: Photo Albums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Your Account
121: Your Account
122: Forums
123: Home
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Photo Albums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Home
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Photo Albums
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Your Account
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Photo Albums
147: Home
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Home
156: Forums
157: Your Account
158: Home
159: Your Account
160: Home
161: Forums
162: Your Account
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Photo Albums
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: News
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Photo Albums
181: Your Account
182: Forums
183: Home
184: Forums
185: Photo Albums
186: Forums
187: Home
188: Forums
189: Your Account
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Photo Albums
195: Forums
196: Your Account
197: Forums
198: Home
199: Forums
200: Your Account
201: Forums
202: Forums
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Forums
210: Your Account
211: Your Account
212: Forums
213: Forums
214: Home
215: Home
216: Home
217: Forums
218: Your Account
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Your Account
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Photo Albums
229: Photo Albums
230: Your Account
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Forums
236: Home
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Your Account
246: Forums
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Photo Albums
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Forums
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Your Account
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Forums
270: Forums
271: Your Account
272: Forums
273: Photo Albums
274: Forums
275: Your Account
276: Forums
277: Photo Albums
278: Home
279: Forums
280: Home
281: Forums
282: Your Account
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Statistics
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Your Account
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Your Account
293: Forums
294: Photo Albums
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Forums
298: Forums
299: Your Account
300: Your Account
301: Home
302: Forums
303: Your Account
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Forums
310: Your Account
311: Forums
312: Forums
313: Your Account
314: Forums
315: Your Account
316: Photo Albums
317: Your Account
318: Forums
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Forums
322: Forums
323: Forums
324: Forums
325: Your Account
326: Forums
327: Forums
328: Forums
329: Home
330: Home
331: Forums
332: Forums
333: Forums
334: Forums
335: Your Account
336: Forums
337: Forums
338: Forums
339: Forums
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Home
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Photo Albums
347: Forums
348: Forums
349: Home
350: Home
351: Forums
352: Your Account
353: Forums
354: Forums
355: Forums
356: Forums
357: Forums
358: Forums
359: Your Account
360: Forums
361: Forums
362: Forums
363: Your Account
364: Home
365: Your Account
366: Photo Albums
367: Forums
368: Photo Albums
369: Forums
370: Forums
371: Forums
372: Forums
373: Your Account
374: Forums
375: Forums
376: Your Account
377: Photo Albums
378: Home
379: Forums
380: Forums
381: Home
382: Photo Albums
383: Forums
384: Forums
385: Home
386: Forums
387: Home
388: Forums
389: Home
390: Forums
391: Forums
392: Forums
393: Your Account
394: Forums
395: Forums
396: Home
397: Your Account
398: Forums
399: Forums
400: Your Account
401: Forums
402: Forums
403: Photo Albums
404: Your Account
405: Photo Albums
406: Forums
407: Forums
408: Forums
409: Photo Albums
410: Forums
411: Forums
412: Forums
413: Forums
414: Forums
415: Home
416: Forums
417: Forums
418: Forums
419: Forums
420: Forums
421: Home
422: Your Account
423: Home
424: Forums
425: Your Account
426: Forums
427: Forums
428: Photo Albums
429: Your Account
430: Photo Albums
431: Home
432: Forums
433: Photo Albums
434: Forums
435: Forums
436: Photo Albums
437: Forums
438: Forums
439: Forums
440: Forums
441: Forums
442: Forums
443: Forums
444: Forums
445: Home
446: Forums
447: Forums
448: Forums
449: Forums
450: Forums
451: Forums
452: Forums
453: Home
454: Forums
455: Photo Albums
456: Your Account
457: Forums
458: Your Account
459: Forums
460: Forums
461: Forums
462: Forums
463: Forums
464: Your Account
465: Forums
466: Your Account
467: Forums
468: Forums
469: Forums
470: Forums
471: Forums
472: Forums
473: Forums
474: Forums
475: Forums
476: Forums
477: Forums
478: Home
479: Forums
480: Forums
481: Forums
482: Forums
483: Forums
484: Forums
485: Forums
486: Forums
487: Your Account
488: Home
489: Forums
490: Forums
491: Home
492: Home
493: Your Account
494: Home
495: Forums
496: Home
497: Forums
498: Photo Albums
499: Home
500: Forums
501: Forums
502: Your Account
503: Forums
504: Forums
  BOT:
01: Photo Albums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
Go to page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MacD
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 1052
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:06 pm    Post subject: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

Finally found time to get out for some recoil therapy today. When I first arrive at the range my habit is to check the brass buckets for cases I reload or intend to reload in the future. I also look in the plastic wide mouth bottles hung near the firing points to receive misfires. Besides the usual 22 lr duds there is usually a few centrefire rounds. Today there were a couple of 30-06 and about 20 5.56 NATO ones. Upon inspection, it appeared that all had soft firing pin hits as primer dimples were small and shallow. When I tried the 5.56 in my rifle they all went bang. Another shooter got the 30-06 to do the same. During a target hanging break we discussed what makes a rifles firing pin fail to hit hard or deep enough for reliable primer detonation. There were many suggested causes but no clear favourate. So I put the same question to the "Nuts". So open up a cool one from Vince's fridge and share your thoughts and insights.

_________________
La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle)
Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

When I've run across it its been from dirty firing pins that have too much friction when released. My Remington M700ML is famous for blow-back getting into the bolt and weakening the spring or otherwise fouling the firing pin within the bolt. I'm pretty careful to make sure I fully disassemble the bolt on cleanings and lube it heavily before reassembling.

Some lubes will get too thick in super cold weather so if that is a possibility, I usually disassemble, wipe dry and try an reapply an extremely light coating of oil.

So, my answer would be fouling inside the bolt / on the firing pin first and foremost, followed by weak firing springs. 3rd I guess would be to mike the firing pin itself to see if its worn down or broken.

-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Gil Martin
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 1837
Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

It depends. I had a problem with a Remington Model 581 .22 l.r. bolt action experiencing frequent misfires. My local gunsmith looked the rifle over and replaced the firing pin spring. Problem solved. Misfires can be caused by many reasons and I agree with DallanC that cleaning the bolt and firing pin can help remedy the problem. So it depends. All the best...
Gil

_________________
Gil
Back to top
View user's profile
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3323
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

Guns and ammo are all like individuals and have their quirks. When ever it happens to me it's so rare that I just figure it's the ammo itself. With me it's mostly happened with very cheap ammo. My 40 cal. Glock did not like cheap ammo. Put some reloads in or better quality ammo and never had a problem. My AR-15 in 7.62x39 didn't like steel cased ammo (possibly harder primer) so I changed out the firing pin and got better ignition. Only reloads for that rifle tho as the steel cases tended to stick in the chamber after a few firings.


Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

When cleaning the firing pin and housing never use grease or heavily oiled as this will help in collecting powder residue and other debris causing the pin to hang up. Clean the firing pin housing and oil with a thinly saturated oily rag or Q-tip. Wipe the firing pin with the same rag. Never over oil the pin or it's housing.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

Good advice.

I oil my 700ML firing pin / spring a little heavier than normal as I want to protect it from that corrosive black powder, vs trying to really "lube" it. The gun really only goes a shot or two between cleaning during hunting season, maybe 10 or so if its been out target shooting. But either way its fully disassembled and cleaned after shooting as finished. If I'm hunting in cold weather, I'll use Bore Butter over oil.

-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

my .223 bolt action would misfire badly about 6 mths after I got it, usually cheap ammo
mate taught me to let firing spring pressure off when storing and Ive never had an issue since...with added bonus the bolt wont go back into rifle until its been turned back again.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:59 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

seems like you all covered it. I had to clean the bolt firing pin in my 50-year old Mossberg bolt action. Also had to replace spring and firing pin in 1869 Rem Rolling Block to get it to ignite. Well, guess we didn't cover the primary reason - neglect.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MacD
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 1052
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

You guys probably hit the nail as I suspect very few people actually disassemble their bolts. In some cases this is not helped by some bolt designs. The other cause we duscussed was excessive headspace which would allow the pin to push the case forward and therefore cushion the blow of the pin. There wasn't unamity on this as some felt the extractor should hold the case tight enough to the bolt face. Again design counts a lot here.

These little discussions at the range are great fun. We had a real good one the same day over a case seperation in a venerable Lee Enfield Mrk III. The case seperated about 1/4" under the shoulder. These were handloads in cases that had been fired "several" times. He was full length resizing, not annealing or trimming. While some automatically blamed the cases others, myself included, told him to also get his rifle checked out. I suspect a long chamber may be a coupled with thr FL sizing is leading to excessive stretch of thr case. Add hardened necks from the sizing and seperation was the result. BTW there was no gas escape that he could notice. The case must have sealed well below the seperation.

_________________
La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle)


Last edited by MacD on Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

MacD wrote:
The case seperated about 1/4" under the shoulder. These were handloads in cases that had been fired "several" times. He was full length resizing, not annealing or trimming. While some automatically blamed the cases others, myself included, told him to get also get his headspace checked.

I had excessive headspace in my .45-70 (0.028") which caused a case separation. that is a straight wall cartridge, however. Most of the case separations I've seen in AR platforms have been just below the shoulder. Full-length resize in a bolt gun - I hope he was only setting the shoulder back 0.001".

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MacD
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 1052
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

I edited my post. While I originally said headspace I actually corrected myself to say rifle. Excessive headspace on a Lee Enfield is usually a bolt head issue or wear of the locking lugs. The. 303 being a rimmed cartridge obviously doesn't headspace on the shoulder although some would argue this is just as critical a measurement. His rifle was a original Mrk III making it at least 100 years old. Sometimes I feel as old as that rifle and SWMBO says I definately have a headspace problem. Lol

_________________
La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle)
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:30 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

I agree wholeheartedly with both Dallan and Elvis. Only problems I've had with light strikes came from sludge in the firing pin carriage and on another rifle, a weak spring. Cleaning and a replacement spring in both cases corrected the issue.

I've only ever seen excessive headspace cause a misfire a couple of times, but that was quickly corrected. I remember on the .30 cal and the .50 BMG Machine guns, you had to set the headspace every time you replaced the barrel or it simply wouldn't fire. The CES for every gun contained a GO/NO GO gauge.

The AR platform would no doubt suffer from the same problems as the old venerable M16 which was terrible for bolt fouling, not just in general, but specifically in the firing pin channel and under the extractor.

I used to get regular misfires on my O/U 12g shottie until I realised the problem was a loose Nut...the one behind the butt. I wasn't releasing the trigger fully between shots. This can also happen with some pistols.

Another cause of I have identified for light strikes or misfires, but only on reloads, is a primer not fully seated. The initial strike would 'seat' the primer fully, but not hit it hard enough it cause ignition. The round generally fired withlout problem on a second strike.

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

also seen it with single shots if not closed firm enough...Bakail of bro in laws needed tweek from gunsmith to fix this and Ive read the Bergeras will do the same if not firmly closed...you get click but no boom.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 6396
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

Reading about the remington above reminds me, years ago I got a 788 that also have weak firing spring.
I wonder if this is a problem with remingtons?

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

I own three Remingtons and have never had a weak strike. I have seen semi-autos give light strikes when there was too much taper on crimp or when the chamber wore enough to allow the round to go too deep into the chamber. I have also seen a 9mm shoot 380 - single fire. They would fire but not cycle the action.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.