HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 611
BOT: 1
Total: 612
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Photo Albums
05: Photo Albums
06: Forums
07: Home
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Home
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Your Account
31: Forums
32: Home
33: Home
34: Forums
35: Home
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Photo Albums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Photo Albums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Your Account
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Your Account
59: Home
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Your Account
63: Forums
64: Home
65: Your Account
66: Forums
67: Photo Albums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Home
71: Your Account
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Photo Albums
76: Your Account
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Photo Albums
81: Your Account
82: Home
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Home
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Photo Albums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Your Account
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Your Account
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Home
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Home
113: Forums
114: Your Account
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Your Account
118: Photo Albums
119: Your Account
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Your Account
125: Forums
126: Your Account
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Home
132: Your Account
133: Your Account
134: Forums
135: News
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Your Account
142: Forums
143: Your Account
144: Home
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Your Account
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Home
156: Forums
157: Photo Albums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Photo Albums
161: Your Account
162: Photo Albums
163: Photo Albums
164: Forums
165: Home
166: Your Account
167: Forums
168: Photo Albums
169: Forums
170: Photo Albums
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Your Account
175: Forums
176: Home
177: Forums
178: Photo Albums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Forums
184: Your Account
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Home
188: Your Account
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Photo Albums
198: Forums
199: Your Account
200: Forums
201: Your Account
202: Photo Albums
203: Forums
204: Photo Albums
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Your Account
210: Forums
211: Your Account
212: Forums
213: Photo Albums
214: Forums
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Your Account
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Home
223: Forums
224: Your Account
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Photo Albums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Photo Albums
231: Home
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Photo Albums
235: Forums
236: Your Account
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Your Account
241: Photo Albums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Photo Albums
250: Forums
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Your Account
254: Home
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Your Account
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Your Account
267: Forums
268: Your Account
269: Photo Albums
270: Home
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Photo Albums
278: Forums
279: Forums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Photo Albums
283: Your Account
284: Photo Albums
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Photo Albums
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Home
297: Forums
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Your Account
303: Forums
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Home
310: Forums
311: Forums
312: Forums
313: Forums
314: Forums
315: Forums
316: Forums
317: Your Account
318: Forums
319: Home
320: Home
321: Your Account
322: Photo Albums
323: Forums
324: Forums
325: Forums
326: Home
327: Forums
328: Photo Albums
329: Photo Albums
330: Forums
331: Forums
332: Home
333: Forums
334: Forums
335: Forums
336: Photo Albums
337: Photo Albums
338: Forums
339: Forums
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Your Account
346: Home
347: Forums
348: Your Account
349: Forums
350: Home
351: Forums
352: Forums
353: Home
354: Forums
355: Forums
356: Forums
357: Forums
358: Forums
359: Forums
360: Forums
361: Forums
362: Your Account
363: Your Account
364: Forums
365: Home
366: Home
367: Forums
368: Your Account
369: Forums
370: Forums
371: Forums
372: Forums
373: Forums
374: Your Account
375: Forums
376: Photo Albums
377: Forums
378: Forums
379: Forums
380: Forums
381: Forums
382: Forums
383: Forums
384: Forums
385: Forums
386: Forums
387: Forums
388: Forums
389: Your Account
390: Your Account
391: Your Account
392: Forums
393: Your Account
394: Forums
395: Home
396: Forums
397: Photo Albums
398: Home
399: Photo Albums
400: Your Account
401: Your Account
402: Forums
403: Forums
404: Forums
405: Home
406: Your Account
407: Forums
408: Forums
409: Photo Albums
410: Home
411: Forums
412: Your Account
413: Your Account
414: Photo Albums
415: Forums
416: Forums
417: Forums
418: Forums
419: Forums
420: Photo Albums
421: Photo Albums
422: Your Account
423: Home
424: Photo Albums
425: Home
426: Your Account
427: Forums
428: Photo Albums
429: Forums
430: Forums
431: Forums
432: Photo Albums
433: Forums
434: Forums
435: Forums
436: Forums
437: Forums
438: Home
439: Forums
440: Home
441: Forums
442: Forums
443: Your Account
444: Your Account
445: Your Account
446: Forums
447: Home
448: Forums
449: Forums
450: Forums
451: Home
452: Forums
453: Forums
454: Home
455: Your Account
456: Forums
457: Your Account
458: Forums
459: Forums
460: Forums
461: Home
462: Forums
463: Forums
464: Forums
465: Forums
466: Photo Albums
467: Forums
468: Photo Albums
469: Photo Albums
470: Your Account
471: Your Account
472: Your Account
473: Forums
474: Forums
475: Home
476: Forums
477: Your Account
478: Forums
479: Forums
480: Forums
481: Forums
482: Home
483: Forums
484: Forums
485: Your Account
486: Forums
487: Your Account
488: Forums
489: Forums
490: Forums
491: Forums
492: Photo Albums
493: Forums
494: Your Account
495: Forums
496: Forums
497: Forums
498: Your Account
499: Forums
500: Forums
501: Forums
502: Forums
503: Forums
504: Forums
505: Photo Albums
506: Photo Albums
507: Forums
508: Your Account
509: Photo Albums
510: Your Account
511: Photo Albums
512: Forums
513: Forums
514: Forums
515: Home
516: Your Account
517: Forums
518: Photo Albums
519: Photo Albums
520: Forums
521: Forums
522: Forums
523: Your Account
524: Photo Albums
525: Forums
526: Forums
527: Home
528: Forums
529: Your Account
530: Forums
531: Photo Albums
532: Forums
533: Forums
534: Home
535: Forums
536: Forums
537: Forums
538: Forums
539: Photo Albums
540: Forums
541: Your Account
542: Forums
543: Forums
544: Forums
545: Forums
546: Forums
547: Forums
548: Forums
549: Forums
550: Forums
551: Forums
552: Forums
553: Photo Albums
554: Forums
555: Home
556: Forums
557: Forums
558: Forums
559: Forums
560: Forums
561: Forums
562: Forums
563: Forums
564: Your Account
565: Photo Albums
566: Forums
567: Forums
568: Forums
569: Forums
570: Your Account
571: Forums
572: Forums
573: Forums
574: Photo Albums
575: Your Account
576: Forums
577: Forums
578: Photo Albums
579: Forums
580: Forums
581: Home
582: Forums
583: Forums
584: Forums
585: Forums
586: Forums
587: Forums
588: Forums
589: Forums
590: Forums
591: Home
592: Forums
593: Forums
594: Your Account
595: Forums
596: Forums
597: Forums
598: Photo Albums
599: Forums
600: Your Account
601: Forums
602: Forums
603: Forums
604: Photo Albums
605: Your Account
606: Forums
607: Forums
608: Home
609: Your Account
610: Forums
611: Forums
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Velocity
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
guncollector
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Velocity Reply with quote

For the first time I can remember, I chronied some new loads significantly faster than the reload books said they should go. I was loading for a new 338 RUM. I was expecting 3000 fps or so with a 250gr SGK and got more like 3300! Similar results with a 210 gr Barnes TS - about 10% higher than the book says.

Shooting a Rem 700 SS 24 inch barrel. The only difference from the book loads were WLRM primers instead of Rem9.5. Seated 0.04 off the lands with the SGKs and 0.06 with the TS's.

Thought it might be the Chrony so I tried a 8mm Mauser that I have previously chronied at about book velocities and it came in right where it should.

Usually I find my results to be 5-10% slower than the load books.

Anyone have similar experiences?
Back to top
View user's profile
Handloader
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

Hi guncollector: welcome to the forum. There are some fairly knowledgable folks here and I always learn something new from their contributions.

Variations from book velocities, higher or lower, are common and underscore the variables that determine bullet speed. Once I had a chronograph that changed its velocity relative to the position of the sun; when the sun got above 45 degrees from the horizon, the velocity would record 20% lower! So, you can't discount the chronograph itself and, like you, I have some standard loads available to verify readings.

Obviously different barrel lengths account for some discrepancies from book results, but, even more, different bullets of the same weight/caliber seem to make an equal difference. Hence, the recommended proceedure of using the bullet's manufacturer's data and work up judiciously.

Post SAAMI, velocities from book to range seem to be more consistent but I always pay attention to the type of firearm or universal receiver used for the tests and the barrel length.
Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

Welcome to the site Guncollector!

I keep hearing great things about trippleshocks... I havent tried them yet due to HORRIBLE experiences with XLC accuracy but I'm tempted to give TShocks a try.

How was accuracy with them? I'd like them for my 7STW which is also a fast shooting rifle.


-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
roklok
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

I had a similar experience recently loading 45-70. Using the exact load listed in the Speer manual with same gun and barrel length (22" Marlin 1895) I was getting 200 fps faster than the manual stated.400 gr Speer in front of 52 gr reloder 7 listed at 1860fps,I was getting 2060fps.Like you I was checking other rifles and loads at same time and they were as expected so I dont doubt the readings.This was the first time I had such a wide difference in velocity.Most of my loads do about what the book says.A pleasant surprise!!
Back to top
View user's profile
yooperchuck
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

While setting up my chronie I had a guy say that 7 feet was fine because that was how he set his up when they first came out. Manual said 10 feet. I went along with the guy. Just hoping i didnt shoot the chrony my first time out. Appreciated his help. Next time I went out I set up at ten feet. Per manual. Shooting some of the same rounds I got lower reading in fps. Not much but noticeable. I was told that the shockwave from my .308 at 7 feet could give higher readings. Hope ya find out whats happening. Im struggling to find a good OAl, powder charge, bullet, brass, primer combo that will give me consistant fps mostly for some longer range shooting. Or whatever my stock remington bdl .308 varmit special will allow me.

_________________
Nothing is as good as it seems........or as bad as it feels.
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

guncollector wrote:
For the first time I can remember, I chronied some new loads significantly faster than the reload books said they should go. I was loading for a new 338 RUM. I was expecting 3000 fps or so with a 250gr SGK and got more like 3300! Similar results with a 210 gr Barnes TS - about 10% higher than the book says.

Shooting a Rem 700 SS 24 inch barrel. The only difference from the book loads were WLRM primers instead of Rem9.5. Seated 0.04 off the lands with the SGKs and 0.06 with the TS's.

Thought it might be the Chrony so I tried a 8mm Mauser that I have previously chronied at about book velocities and it came in right where it should.

Usually I find my results to be 5-10% slower than the load books.

Anyone have similar experiences?

G'Day guncollector, welcome to HuntingNut. You will find a wealth of knowledge here.

The WLRM primer.....is this a magnum primer? If so, this will lift velocities. I remember reading my first reloading manual thoroughly when I first started reloading.....I needed to know what I was doing ......and I remember reading that using a magnum primer, at least when loading pistol, can be the same a increasing your load by up to 1.5 grains of powder. This could account for your extra velocity.

I would be having a very close look at the cases for excessive pressure signs. If there are none then look at your chrony. If everything seems correct there then I would look at your load and projectile position in relation to the lands. It could also be a combination of all of these things.

I would certainly be investigating thoroughly to ensure that your loads are safe.

Good luck mate.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
guncollector
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

Thanks for the ideas. I'll let you know how it works out.

Regarding triple shocks and accuracy, I was getting <1" groups at 100 yards with the best load and std deviation was 7.5 so I'd say that was accurate. That was my first time out with this rifle so I'll be playing with it some more.

I also use X bullets and TS in my 270. In this cae, The X-bullets are more accurate than the TS's but both are 1 MOA or better. I tried XLC's and did not have any luck with them. A couple of things do seem to be consistently true with barnes bullets - drop down one weight class for the caliber if you can and seat 0.06 off the lands. In other words, most people think of 130 grain bullets for a 270 but 120 barnes bullets seem to be a bit more accurate.

In any case, not all rifles will like barnes bullets but they sure are good performers if you can make them work in your rifle.
Back to top
View user's profile
Flint54
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 389
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

Cool Welcome to the land of variables. As stated make sure that your crono is set up at the recommended distance. Once that is set start your testing but always remember that barrels will shoot diffrently. No two barrels will give the same results and yes, you may come across a barrel that shoots faster. Although 200fps is a bit on the high side so you need to check for any pressure signs. I just got a Ruger Ultralite with a 16.5" barrel in .308 Win. (A). I also have 3 other .308s. A Savage 99C with a 22" bbl (B), a Savage 10FP with a 24" E R Shaw bbl (C) & another Savage 10FP with a 26" Kreiger bbl (D).

My target load is Lapua cases, CCI LR Benchrest Primer, 155gr Nosler Custom Competition bullet, 47.5gr BL-C(2) loaded to an OAL of 2.785". This load gives me sub 0.5 MOA from the Kreiger BBL, and sub .75 MOA with the ER Shaw. With the 99 and a tang sight @ 1.5" and in the UL so far ist staying under MOA.

Here is the suprise!!

Rifle (D) 2855fps - SD 14fps
Rifle (C) 2795fps - SD 18fps
Rifle (B) 2580fps - SD 28fps
Rifle (A) 2720fps - SD 15fps

I cannot explain how or why the UL shoots as fast as it does but it is right on the heels of my 24" barrel and way above the old 99. The 99's bore is bright and clean but runs a bit over sized so it shoots a bit slower than the rest. I am going to set down in the future and do some accuracy testing with the UL and see what it can do. This will be a 3 shot group rifle as I don't expect to be using it for much other than hunting and I will say for a .308 it lets you know you shot something 8-O. With scope and sling it just goes a tad over 6.25 pounds with a full mag and empty chamber, the way I hunt with it.

So, check for pressure and if you don't observe any signs be happy with your new laser!!! Cool Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
shootist
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 30, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Lackawaxen,PA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

Hi GunCollector...

Here's my $.02....listen to VINCE

Anytime you get a 10% INCREASE from expected results...Take heed!

1. Shoot Factory 250's through the chronograph and note the results.
If 100fps over about 2900fps, back off your loading of the 250 SGK's to match the factory loadings, paying attention to OAL and crimping.

2. Keep factory loads on hand for reference measurements.

3. Check the Reloading Database here for similar loadings, since you didn't
mention powder,weight etc.

4. The maximum SAAMI pressure is 65,000psi. and factory loadings with 250gr bullets is around 3000fps. It's difficult to pinpoint, but case length,crimp,powder density,compression,fracture etc. all increase corresponding pressure.

5. Take some case web measurements.

6. Again...listen to VINCE

SHOOTIST
Back to top
View user's profile
guncollector
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

Update -

I went back to the range and stretched out the cable connecting my chrony to the readout as far as it would go. Probably 3 or 4 feet further than the last time. And suddenly the velocities dropped down to just about what the books say they should be. I think that there was enough muzzle blast reaching the chrony the first time around to make it appear that things were moving faster than reality. When I tried that 8mm load the first time as a check, it didn't have near as much muzzle blast so it was reading correctly. Lesson learned - larger calibers with larger muzzle blast must have more distance between the muzzle and the chrony to be accurate.
Back to top
View user's profile
shootist
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 30, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Lackawaxen,PA

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

Hi Guncollector...glad you have it solved .

Regards,


SHOOTIST
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

guncollector wrote:
Update -

I went back to the range and stretched out the cable connecting my chrony to the readout as far as it would go. Probably 3 or 4 feet further than the last time. And suddenly the velocities dropped down to just about what the books say they should be. I think that there was enough muzzle blast reaching the chrony the first time around to make it appear that things were moving faster than reality. When I tried that 8mm load the first time as a check, it didn't have near as much muzzle blast so it was reading correctly. Lesson learned - larger calibers with larger muzzle blast must have more distance between the muzzle and the chrony to be accurate.

Cheers mate. I'm glad it all worked out.

Best lesson to be learned from all of this is:

If something isn't right or if there seems to be a problem.....especially a SAFETY issue.....STOP, go back to the start point and start checking everything that could be a possible problem. Better to check everything twice and be assured that all is ok than to say, "Well, that is near enough" then go out and blow up your firearm and injure yourself or one of your mates.

Time to go out and bust some caps, put some rounds downrange. Very Happy Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Coyote_Hunter_
Member
Member


Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 208
Location: Franktown, CO

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Velocity Reply with quote

I already shoot TSX's, although I haven't had a chance to take any game with them. Like Dallan, I had a horrible experience with the XLC's and a buck antelope suffered needlessly as a result.

Accuracy has been uotstanding, and I get around 100fps more than similar weight bullets of traditional (non-grooved) design.

So far I use:

180g, .300 Win Mag
168g, .308, .300 Win Mag
115g, .257 Roberts

Picked up a box of 140g today for the 7m Mag.

As soon as they are available, I will switch to the MRX. They will end any concerns I have about bullet expansion ( or lack thereof, as I suspect happened with the XLC's).

_________________
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 7 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.