HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 269
BOT: 0
Total: 269
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Photo Albums
05: Home
06: Your Account
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Home
10: Photo Albums
11: Your Account
12: Home
13: Photo Albums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Your Account
23: Forums
24: Photo Albums
25: Your Account
26: Forums
27: Your Account
28: Your Account
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Your Account
33: Forums
34: Photo Albums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Photo Albums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Your Account
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Your Account
45: Your Account
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Home
51: Forums
52: Home
53: Your Account
54: Photo Albums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Your Account
58: Your Account
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Home
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Home
74: Your Account
75: Forums
76: Home
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Home
81: Forums
82: Photo Albums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Photo Albums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Home
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Photo Albums
96: Your Account
97: Home
98: Home
99: Photo Albums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Your Account
108: Home
109: Home
110: Home
111: Forums
112: Your Account
113: Photo Albums
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Photo Albums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Your Account
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Home
127: Your Account
128: Forums
129: Photo Albums
130: Forums
131: Photo Albums
132: Home
133: Your Account
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Your Account
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Home
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Home
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Home
149: Forums
150: Your Account
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Home
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Home
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Home
168: Your Account
169: Forums
170: Your Account
171: Forums
172: Home
173: Photo Albums
174: Forums
175: Home
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Home
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Forums
184: Forums
185: Home
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: News
189: Forums
190: Home
191: Your Account
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Photo Albums
195: Photo Albums
196: Forums
197: Statistics
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Photo Albums
202: Forums
203: Home
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Home
207: Forums
208: Home
209: Photo Albums
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Your Account
213: Home
214: Home
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Forums
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Your Account
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Photo Albums
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Photo Albums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Photo Albums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Home
243: Forums
244: Your Account
245: Home
246: Forums
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Forums
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Your Account
254: Photo Albums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Home
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Photo Albums
267: Photo Albums
268: Forums
269: Photo Albums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

5,000 fps! well, not yet
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Handloader
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

george20042007 wrote:


Handloader, in your quest for 5000 fps, I'd be interested in knowing the shooting details, i.e. are you allowing the barrel to cool between shots, barrel prep., how often do you clean the barrel, etc.

Other threads have addressed such issues, but, I'd like to know more about your shooting considerations as opposed to bullet type, powder, primer, and brass used.
Keep it coming...

Howdy George

At this point no extraordinary proceedures have been incorporated, although, some may be needed to reach goal. One impediment is the 1 -12 twist. If it were a 1 in 14, velocities would be higher with each of the loads tested thus far.

The barrel is given two minutes between shots. No cleaning is done except as needed or if their is a change in components*. As much as possible, I try to time my sessions with temperatures in the 68 to 75 degree range which means trips to Prescott this time of year. I fire lapped the barrel on the first session and, then, treated it with Microlon, a standard proceedure I use with all new rifles.

* Most factory barrels are fairly rough when new and some may have tight spots along the bore. Looking at a new barrel through a 25X borescope is almost frightening! I use the NECO fire lap process which removes the feathered edges on button rifled bores and polishes, or laps, the barrel to where it is significantly smoother and more uniform. After this process, cleaning is done only as a factor of deteriorated accuracy. I have several Swifts and on one of them I can go just over 100 rounds before cleaning is needed. Most other fire lapped centerfires will go 40 to 70 rounds before any deterioration of accuracy is noted. Because fire lapping makes the bore smoother, cleaning is easier, too. On high quality cut rifled barrels (for example, Krieger) no fire lapping is needed as the barrels have been carefully lapped before shipment. On hammer forged barrels, rifling is often smoother than button rifled barrels in my experience. Finely lapped barrels will yield lower SDs, increase accuracy and will clean up much faster.
Back to top
View user's profile
Jack
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 19, 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Might be worth noting that the M1A Abrams uses a smoothbore cannon- the stabilizing spin is imparted by fins on the projectile, not rifling.
Far less bore friction than a rifled barrel, FWIW.
Back to top
View user's profile
Al_Sohlstrom
Member
Member


Joined: Aug 30, 2005
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:27 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Hi
Jack wrote:
Might be worth noting that the M1A Abrams uses a smoothbore cannon- the stabilizing spin is imparted by fins on the projectile, not rifling.
Far less bore friction than a rifled barrel, FWIW.
The main advantage of the smooth bore gun is that you don't have to precompensate for stabilizing spin when you manufacture a High Explosive Anti Tank (HEAT) round.

The stabilizing spin of a rifled-barrel fired round screws up the formation of the high pressure jet in the HEAT round, decreasing the thickness of the armor it will defeat. The only way to UNscrew-it-up is to machine an Unscrewing-it-up counter-rifling in the metal cone that forms the jet. The counter-rifling of that cone is mathmatics, physics, terminal ballistics and engineering gone MAD! Take out the rifling, though, and you're back to plain, un-counter-rifled cones and un-screwed-up high pressure jets.

For what it's worth: You can fire MISSLES out of a smooth bore gun, as well. Not that I'm saying that I think that they ARE, or that they WILL, or even that they MIGHT; Just that they CAN.

_________________
"Al's Postings," from the, "Good Eats Fan Page."
At the heart of evey complex problem lies a graceful solution involving explosives.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Al_Sohlstrom wrote:
For what it's worth: You can fire MISSLES out of a smooth bore gun, as well. Not that I'm saying that I think that they ARE, or that they WILL, or even that they MIGHT; Just that they CAN.

They have been firing Rocket Assist Projectiles from artillery pieces for some years...I suppose they could be classified as a missile of sorts.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Al_Sohlstrom
Member
Member


Joined: Aug 30, 2005
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Hi
Vince wrote:
Al_Sohlstrom wrote:
For what it's worth: You can fire MISSLES out of a smooth bore gun, as well. Not that I'm saying that I think that they ARE, or that they WILL, or even that they MIGHT; Just that they CAN.

They have been firing Rocket Assist Projectiles from artillery pieces for some years...I suppose they could be classified as a missile of sorts.

Cheers, Vince
Naw - RAP's a whole 'nother thing. It's just an effective way to get more propellant behind the projectile, and thus greater range, and not over-pressure the barrel and breech of the howitzer. Somone, somewhere, saw the RPG-7's setup - with the expulsion charge and the sustaining motor - and thought, "you know - if that were just 155 millimeter or so...".

The Shillelagh was a real wire-guided missle, and, at the time, had the highest homogenous-steel penetration of any American shaped-charge munition. The TOW missile beats it (at a vaguely-remember around-13-feet of homogenous steel), hands down, now, and I believe that the later model Dragons matched it while being smaller and lighter.

I just find if very interesting that ALL the new fire-and-forget anti-tank stuff clocks in at right about 5 inches in diameter, and the M1A has a right-about-5-inch-diameter smooth bore gun....

_________________
"Al's Postings," from the, "Good Eats Fan Page."
At the heart of evey complex problem lies a graceful solution involving explosives.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Crackshot
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 1693
Location: Mich

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Hello guys! Again I will bring to your attention that "yes" there is a gun fired round that exceedes 5000 fps. the only one that matches it is our Abrahms tank gun, but not by much.
It is the MECAR 105mm TPDS-T Practice shot M724 made in Belgium. Otherwise known as a submunition, It is a Target Practice Discarding Sabot-Tracer. Made for the British 105mm Tank guns made in the Mecar plant in Belgium.
Complete round weight is 29.5LBS
Projectile weight is 6.8LBS
Muzzel velocity "IS" 5,035 FPS
It's range is in excess of 7,650 yds.
It is not a rocket assisted projectile.

_________________
The human mind is the weapon, the gun is just one of its tools.
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Crackshot wrote:

It's range is in excess of 7,650 yds.

AND BEFORE SOMEONE ASKS, NO I WILL NOT ADD IN THE EFFECT OF THE EARTHS ROTATION ON PROJECTILS FIRED AT THAT RANGE INTO THE NEXT VERSION OF POINTBLANK!!!

Very Happy


-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Crackshot
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 1693
Location: Mich

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

AWWWWWW..... Why not? :):):)

_________________
The human mind is the weapon, the gun is just one of its tools.
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Programming for the Earths spin must be a nightmare.

You'd need to:

Know your Latitude to get the EXACT diameter of the earth where you are, the angel diffence between true north or south and where your aiming, then you need to calculate the diameter of the earth divided by the time it will take the projectile to reach the target then you'd calculate how much is the "corrected" amount based on the angel your shooting. Shocked

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
george20042007
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 568
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

mc223, your point is well taken, but, most gun writers use the rpm term as most walks of life identify with the term. Now for us suffisticated folks here Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Keep it coming...
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Spacedone
Member
Member


Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: missouri

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

a trick navy question

what is the velocity of a 12 inch gun at the target.
Back to top
View user's profile MSN Messenger
Crackshot
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 1693
Location: Mich

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

As fast as It needs to go to get the job done.:)
I have some info here on the 16 inch naval gun, but none on the 12 inch naval gun. sorry. Embarassed

_________________
The human mind is the weapon, the gun is just one of its tools.
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Arnt the original battle ship guns accurate to under 1 MOA ?? I thought I read that somewhere Smile

As for them firing, I wouldnt want to be anywhere within 20 milies (their max range) from it Very Happy

But seriously though Bushmaster would have this answered properly Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Crackshot
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 1693
Location: Mich

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

The newer 16 inch guns that were on the Iowa Class Battle ships were in fact accurate to 26 miles and could keep all nine guns fire inside a football field at that distance. pretty impressive while rocking and floating and bobbing up and down in the ocean.... Cool

_________________
The human mind is the weapon, the gun is just one of its tools.
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Crackshot,

I didnt know that they were accurate to 26 miles thanks for the correction. Still pretty far. That would really require doing math for the Earths spin. Shocked

Also if I did the math right I guess they arnt Sub-MOA accurate. At 26 miles 1MOA is 13.3 yards. Smile That means the battleships guns at that extreme range are accurate to 7.5MOA Shocked

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.