Taylor Knock Out Factor.

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

What do you think of this method of calculating wounding/killing ability of ammo instead of ft/lbs ?? Confused

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Where

* mBullet is the bullet mass in grains (1 pound = 7000 grains)
* vBullet is the bullet velocity in feet per second
* dBullet is the bullet diameter in inches

Some backround information:

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Taylor KO Factor is a commonly used mathematical approach for evaluating the stopping power of hunting cartridges. The term "KO" is an acronym for "Knock Out." The Taylor KO Factor (TKOF) is a figure of merit that allows hunters to compare bullets with respect to stopping power. The TKOF was developed by John "Pondoro" Taylor, a famous mid-20th century hunter and poacher of African big game

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While pursuing his legendary hunting activities, Taylor observed that some cartridges were more effective at stopping elephants than others. He drew a clear distinction between stopping power and killing ability. Since he was always aiming for a brain shot, a properly placed shot with any of the cartridges he evaluated would kill an elephant. He was more concerned with the case where the shot missed the brain and the wounded elephant could turn and attack him. He wanted a cartridge that would "knock out" an elephant even when the bullet struck in a location that was not immediately lethal. To Taylor, a "knock out" simply meant that the elephant was sufficiently stunned by the hit that he would not immediately turn on the hunter. This would allow the hunter sufficient time for an accurate follow-up shot.

Opinions ?? Smile

Dimitri

GroovyJack · Member Joined: May 21, 2005 Posts: 621 Location: Bama

Well TKO is one of many guides in use ...
It is a good one for it's intended purpose ..
One thing many people fail to consider ( or do not know ) is that the TKO was developed as a comparison guide for SOLID bullets .. Not softs ..
Now if ya wanna brain an elephant you want a solid ..
And you can talk to people who have brained or just missed braining an elephant and they will tell you that like any other situation , the same bare miss with two different calibers will produce two different results .. Often not agreeing with TKO numbers ..
Some ( myself included ) will take offense at whoever referred to Taylor as a " poacher " .. Taylor lived in a different Africa , than any of us here have seen or will ever see .. Ivory Hunting was legal ..
These white hunters ( Taylor was only one of hundreds , maybe more ) , spent their entire lives , in many cases , losing their lives , chasing Ivory ..
They had vast experience , that none of us will ever have ..
OK so I got off on a rant here Very Happy

Crackshot · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Taylor Knock Out Factor.

Is Taylor the one who killed a "BUNCH" of elephants useing just his 6.5 Mauser?

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

I had enough requests for it that its a part of PointBlank b1.8a ... however it doesnt accurately represent good numbers for states side game. Expecially when concidering expanding bullets we use as noted above.

-DallanC

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

GroovyJack,

Yes the poacher part is wrong Jack, shame really but atleast his biography on Wiki (Where I got the other stuff too) doesnt mention that:

Quote::

John Howard "Pondoro" Taylor (1904 - 1969) was a big-game hunter of Irish descent. Born in Dublin as the son of a surgeon he developed an urge to go to Africa and become a professional hunter. His parents paid for his passage to Cape Town. In Africa he expermimented extensively with calibers and different types of rifles which made him an expert in big game rifles. He is credited with developing the Taylor KO Factor, and authored several books. John Taylor died in 1969 in London.

Crackshot,

I do belive he prefered the biggest bullet going at a moderate speed with a heavy weight for his hunting judging by the way he calculated TKO. Smile

Dallan,

When I first started to learn about hunting and guns (when I was 12-13) I realized there was a flaw in the Foot-Pounds method as there were plenty of sites dedicated to balistics tests and the bullets with the bigger diameters produced on these tests I found online the bigger permanate wound cavities. Smile

And after looking through many diffferent ways to calculate it in another way I desided that Taylor's numbers were the "best". Because they included diameter as a factor and it seems the most logical way to put it. Cool

I know they arnt for expanding bullets but think of it this way, a 243Win wont expand as much as a 308Win using the same style of bullet right ?? Confused

So eventhough the TKO values are "off" after the bullet has expanded its still all relative. Smile

You know what I mean ?? Confused

Dimitri

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

More than expansion, the problem is an expandable bullet loosing mass as it expands. With this reduction in mass it looses energy very fast.

However I agree with you about the bigger guns make bigger holes. Its one reason I love hunting with my muzzleloaders. I make a .5" hole going in and even with zero expansion I get a .5" hole going out Very Happy

-DallanC

Spacedone · Member Joined: Nov 04, 2005 Posts: 266 Location: missouri

actually a small bullet can hace the same potential as a large/heavy bullet.

it all depends on the energy transferred. here is where foot pounds does come in. a example is a elk needs 1000 ft pounds at range to do a effective kill.

a small bullet can give out this poundage with high velocity and massive expansion. but it is easier for a large heavy bullet to give this poundage with less expansion. it doesnt matter if your bullet doesnt expand as long as it delivers the required poundage. this is knockdown factor.

a 22 will kill a elk at range with a perfect vital hit but will never have that knockdown ability while a 300 win mag will hit with a proper expanding bullet with enough force to actually knockdown a elk.

thats why depleted uranium rounds do so much damage. they are super dense so even if they dont expand they hit with max force.

the best part about foot pounds is you can figure pretty easily if the bullet and gun you are using actually will put out enough killing force to humainly kill your game.

GroovyJack · Member Joined: May 21, 2005 Posts: 621 Location: Bama

Taylor may have used a 6.5 but he favored larger calibers ..
WDM Karamojo Bell used a 6.5 and 7x57 with solids for many of his eles .. He had vast experience , and apparently many wounded elephants as well , as a result of his choice of calibers .. He is frowned upon around many campfires in Africa , by those who have some ethics about them .. I think Bell's choice was more logistics , than anything majical about the calibers he used .. he could carry quite a bit more ammunition ..

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

Jack,

Doesnt matter if your carrying more ammo when the elephant desides to charge at you! Shocked

Dimitri

GroovyJack · Member Joined: May 21, 2005 Posts: 621 Location: Bama

Not the point when you're out in the bush for many months at a time , like these men were .. You can be assured that witha 6.5 or 7mm , he was in close , real close .. And he knew where the brain was from any angle ..
Whats really close you ask ?? Most will not attempt a brain shot outside 20 yards or so .. And they're using quite a bit more than a 7x57 ..