Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister

User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Latest: cav2108
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 12623

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 235
BOT: 2
Total: 237
Who Is Where:
01: Forums
02: Your Account
03: Your Account
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Photo Albums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Your Account
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Your Account
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Your Account
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Your Account
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Photo Albums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Photo Albums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Your Account
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Your Account
79: Forums
80: Your Account
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Your Account
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Your Account
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Photo Albums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Photo Albums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Your Account
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Photo Albums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Your Account
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Your Account
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Photo Albums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Photo Albums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Photo Albums
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Photo Albums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Photo Albums
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Your Account
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Your Account
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Photo Albums
202: Forums
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Your Account
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Your Account
212: Your Account
213: Forums
214: Forums
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Your Account
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Photo Albums
226: Your Account
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Forums
01: Forums
02: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 305
 Pictures: 2361
  · Views: 448009
  · Votes: 1310
  · Comments: 86

Support our Advertisers

Cast Projectiles in a Ported Barrel.
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 713

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:29 am    Post subject: Cast Projectiles in a Ported Barrel. Reply with quote

Have been told that it is not recommended.
But it is possible.
Any opinions or can I look up an archive somewhere?
Its a Marlin444P for a range shoot for cast projectiles only.
Back to top
View user's profile
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 2613
Location: Not Here...!!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Cast Projectiles in a Ported Barrel. Reply with quote

I don't think there is a problem using cast bullets in your ported barrel, at least I don't recall ever hearing that there was. I know a lot of people shoot them in ported rifles. The story used to be that Micro Groove barrels (12grooves) didn't shoot cast bullets as well as ones with Ballard (6 grooves) rifling, but I think that has been pretty much put to rest as well. Marlin would be able to tell you for sure or check with these guys.

A cruel truth is much more desirable than a really nice lie.
'Tis far better to walk alone than to follow a crowd or an a**hole going the wrong way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 2613
Location: Not Here...!!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Cast Projectiles in a Ported Barrel. Reply with quote

Here's an article I'm sure you'll find interesting. Smile

Levergun loads: the .444 Marlin
Guns Magazine, June, 2004 by John Taffin

As I picked up the telephone my, "Hello" was greeted by, "How in the world did you do that?" and I immediately knew who it was. Several weeks earlier my Texas gunsmith, friend and fellow Shootist Bob Baer and I were discussing the relative merits of Marlin leverguns. Bob specializes in custom versions of both Ruger single actions and Marlin leverguns with some of the slickest examples anyone is ever likely to encounter.

As with so many other shooters, Baer repeated the same old refrain, namely, "Marlin Micro-Groove barrels will not shoot cast bullets well." At the time I said nothing, simply waiting for the opportunity to shoot a target with one of my cast bullets loads and send it down to Texas. A week had passed since that target was sent and I had been expecting his call at any time.

The problem with the Marlin Model 444 and all other Marlin Micro-Groove leverguns, and particularly the .44 Magnum and .357 Magnum, is not that they will not shoot cast bullets but rather they will not shoot all cast bullet loads.

Three things are usually necessary to make these barrels shoot, really shoot, with cast bullets. From my experience I have found cast bullets will shoot if the bearing surface on the bullet is of the right size, if the bullet is a gas check design, and if the muzzle velocity is in the right range. A 300-grain gas check bullet at 2,000 fps made the one-hole, three-shot group on the target I sent to Baer.

It was not long after sending this target to Bob Baer that he, Brian Pearce and myself met with executives of Marlin at the SHOT Show. We talked for an hour with the three of us sharing what direction we thought Marlin should go. Some of things we mentioned were octagonal barrels; short, easy handling carbines; Ballard, of cut rifle barrels; and a return to some of the older calibers such as the .38-55.

I will certainly not say what we see coming out of Marlin today is a direct result of that meeting, but obviously they did listen to us as since that time we have seen shorter barreled versions such as the .45-70 Guide Gun, the .444 Marlin Outfitter, and the .44 Magnum Prospector, as well as octagonal barrels and the return of the .38-55. And most importantly, Marlin barrels are no longer Micro-Groove rifled but rather are cut-rifled. This means they will handle cast bullet loads as well as jacketed bulleted rounds.

Neither Fish Nor Fowl

The .444 Marlin cartridge and companion levergun go back to 1965. Marlin had not offered a levergun chambered in a true big-bore rifle cartridge since the .45-70 had been dropped in 1917. Marlin and Remington had the chance to offer a perfect levergun/big bore cartridge combination, however the only thing that was perfect was the extent of the imperfection in both rifle and ammunition.

It is obvious the powers to be at Marlin visualized the Model 444 as a long-range rifle instead of a woods rifle. The barrel length was overly long at 24"; it was too heavy with a weight of 7 1/2 pounds; and the stock, consisting of a semi-beavertail forend and Monte Carlo cheek piece on the butt stock, was far from what one would expect on an easy handling lever action rifle.

Too Light Bullets

The rifle itself was not the only problem. Apparently the .444 cartridge was looked upon as sort of a ".220 Swift-ization" of the .44 Magnum by using the same 240-grain jacketed bullet of the .44 Magnum but driven at much higher speeds. In addition to this, the 336 action is too short to use the .444 cartridge with bullets seated out to any length. The one bright spot was the fact Remington also offered the .444 Marlin loaded with a 265-grain JSP bullet. However this should have been the lightest bullet offered, not the heaviest.

Several of these problems have since been addressed. The Monte Carlo cheek piece was dropped and the barrel was cut back to 22 inches in 1971, and finally in 1999, a much easier handling 18 1/2" Outfitter Model 444 was offered. Most of us could do without the ported barrel and the lack of a full magazine tube on the Outfitter, however it is a much easier handling brush gun than the original.

About Brush Guns

I have used the term "'brush gun" and we might as well nail down that terminology right here and now. From the Taffin Unabridged Dictionary of Sixguns and Leverguns we have the following definition: "Brush Gun: (brush-gun) n., a large caliber rifle, usually of the lever activating type, with a short barrel. Used primarily for easy carrying in brushy country of wooded areas."

In spite of this easy to understand definition, we still encounter some (including certain writers), who believe a brush gun is for shooting through brush. There is no way any hand held firearm can be made powerful enough to perform the feat of shooting through brush or twigs or saplings and guarantee the bullet won't be deflected on the way to its target.

Brush guns are simply compact, easy to carry, fast into action carbines. They are most often found fitted with either the standard factory iron sights or a receiver sight mated up with a bead front sight. A relatively recent innovation that works very well with brush guns is the ghost ring style rear sight. If scoped, brush guns will usually carry a small scope of low power or a red dot scope, neither of which will distract drastically from their fast handling characteristics.

A cruel truth is much more desirable than a really nice lie.
'Tis far better to walk alone than to follow a crowd or an a**hole going the wrong way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 713

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Cast Projectiles in a Ported Barrel. Reply with quote

Thanks 1895ss. Looks like I'll be giving them a go.
Back to top
View user's profile
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Jul 15, 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: Destin, Florida

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Cast Projectiles in a Ported Barrel. Reply with quote

The secret to the micro groove rifling and cast bullets is very simple, Hard Cast GC bullets. Prevent the small, shallow rifling from stripping on soft material and the gun shoots like a house a fire.

By the by, I have a 2x mounted on a Weaver tip off mount and never have had a problem with running targets or quick handling. However, as you noted the 444 rifle, unlike the later carbine, is long and heavy.

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-Winston Churchill
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.