Crackshot wrote:

Now....we need to keep Billery Clinton out of the White House........and any other place of power.

Amen to that

I think Vince still saving her a seat at the theater.

4rum wrote:

I think Vince still saving her a seat at the theater.

You go Vince

Bushmaster wrote:

d_hoffman...Is that language necessary?

You are absolutly right Bushy. I did get carried away. It's just that when people start talking like that It makes my blood boil. After all, I gave 8 years of my life defending the freedoms of the very people who want to take it away. Would've made it 20 but I got out to save a marriage which turned sour anyway. I do appologize.

Here's another sponser that's breaking ranks with Zumbo over this issue.

himtnjerky.com/

This picture just about says it all.
Don

Bushmaster wrote:

Hey!! I like Mr. Zumbo and his feelings about Assault rifles...I echo his statement...

Bushmaster, you sir have avoided your very own words through this entire thread. You should join the ranks of this ignorant Zumbo.
Thanks to the second amendment, I will be hunting in MO this spring with my AR and I may just bring some old fashioned wooden thing too.

Remington Dumps Zumbo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.remington.com/libr...2007-1.asp
What a shame.

a lot of people have missed the big picture here, there is a guy who by definition is a spokesman for hunting and firearm ownership. he then therefor MUST be for all forms of legal hunting and or firearm ownership. this is not what was done, he lumped a lot of firearms into a grouping and used the buzz word of the day to show his own feelings. the political correctness of it all is a joke in itself. there is no such thing as a assault rilfe, its a rifle period. so it spits the rounds out faster whoopee would I own one, naw probably not, would i hunt with one? naw probably not, would i say they are "terror weapons" naw probably not. would i try to stop someone from hunting with one? HECK NO! why, well if you try to stop this firearm from being used, then which one do we ban tomarrow? what about the day after that?? my personal opinion on the semi-auto centerfires, for yu go for it, for me, no thanks... i will stick with my bolts or the pumpgun, or the lever, if i want a faster second shot, i will drink another cup of coffee..
to each his own whats good for some shouldnt be forced on others.

I'll try again. 1. I don't care if you own a military style "assault rifle". In fact I'll help protect your right to own one and have. 2. I do, however, believe they should not be used or seen in the field as a hunting rifle. They tend to give the wrong signal to the anti-gun faction of hunters being blood thursty killers. And 3. The mindset of most of the "assault rifle" crowd is also not condusive of the proper sportsman's attitude that should be presented to the public. I have been a Range Master at a california rifle and pistol range and seen the "Macho" attitude put forth by these people. Not impressed at all. I am a firm believer in the citizens of this country having the abilility and right to own military weapons, but prudence in their use should be concidered. I stand by my convictions...

Bushy,
I do not count my self as a membert of the spray and pray "assault rifle crowd" but I carry one in the field and very successfuly harvest coytes with it. For multiple coyotes coming in to a stand or heaven forbid a fast follow up shot if I would happen to only wound the animal, you cannot beat an AR.

Even if rifle hunting was legal here, I would not use it on the deer we have in Illinois as even an 80 gr. 223 is marginal for a clean kill on that sized animal in my opinion. However some of the smaller south Texas variety deer and thin skinned antelope, I think that the soft shoooting gas gun will allow the hunter to be a better shot and make good bullet placement for clean kills. It is also the perfect Prairie Dog gun.

I also use said terrorist gun in CMP rifle matches and am amazed at how accurate and precise this weapon platform is. When I can shoot little groups under 2 inches at 300 yards with iron sights on this weapon, I do not think it is unfit for hunting.

You might as well be a racist saying that a gun is bad because it is black..plastic. That attitude won't hunt around here.

I know a few bad apples can ruin it for the majority by littering public and private ground and shooting road signs but they do that with .22's and and 30-30's too. It is not the weapon that is "evil".

Above all , it is easy and fun to shoot. No purple shoulder after a day at the range with this. Beginners can achieve succes and gain skill and confidence with this gun using standard loads that would create a flinch if you were shooting a standard load in a 30-30 or 30-06. My 10 year old daughter loves to shoot my AR at the range. In her words, "I can hit what I am aiming at with this one Daddy..."

Its obvious this is a heated issue, I'm glad this discussion has remained fairly civil though.

As for Zumbo, I think he put his foot in his mouth. As a spokesman for the hunting industry he should be doubly aware of what comments he makes. Its inexcusable to make such a comment in "error" (by error i mean he himself admitted he was wrong to say what he did). People in this position should take the time to ponder and verify what they use as public statements.

Again, major kudo's to Remington for their clear and decisive statement.

As for the "assault" weapons used in hunting. I dont see a whole lot of difference between those and a Browning semi-auto hunting rifle. As long as it has the energy to cleanly harvest the animal using proper bullets and is legal, there should be no problem with using it.

I'm interested in Remingtons 308 though, that sounds fun.


-DallanC

Bushmaster wrote:

I'll try again. 1. I don't care if you own a military style "assault rifle". In fact I'll help protect your right to own one and have. 2. I do, however, believe they should not be used or seen in the field as a hunting rifle. They tend to give the wrong signal to the anti-gun faction of hunters being blood thursty killers. And 3. The mindset of most of the "assault rifle" crowd is also not condusive of the proper sportsman's attitude that should be presented to the public. I have been a Range Master at a california rifle and pistol range and seen the "Maucho" attitude put forth by these people. Not impressed at all. I am a firm believer in the citizens of this country having the abilility and right to own military weapons, but prudence in their use should be concidered. I stand by my convictions...

Bushy... You have hit it on the head. In our day of "touchy-feely" persons, who have no idea of logic or clear thinking,and perception being equal to reality in their minds, the sight, or even the mention of a "black rifle" or even a GUN!!! will cause them to dampen their lace undies.

Having observed the "macho" attitude of a small portion of "assault rifle" owners, and handgunners, and .22 rimfire users, it is no wonder that the rest of us suffer a negative image. The same thing goes for the small percentage of rude, peckerwoodish pick up truck drivers who give all the rest a bad name.

We all are affected by this, to some degree. I was at the range, and a couple of young men were next to me with one of the tricked out ARs. It went full auto! That got the attention of everybody on the line.

I struck up a conversation with one of them, who turned out to be the owner, and found out he had just purchased it at the gun show the week before. After the event, which frightened him, he found the upper and lower had not completely latched, allowing the full auto operation. He latched them, and had no more problems, but I suggested maybe he should have it checked out by a good 'smith. Wasn't interested.

He knew virtually nothing about shooting, except to keep the muzzle pointed downrange, which is a VERY good place to start. He asked some questions about what I was doing, (shooting for groups with my bolt action rifle) and was completely mystified when I told him I had reloaded the ammmo.

Really nice guys, both, but they need education, badly. One of the rifles' scope rings were so loose, they could turn by hand. I suggested demounting the scope, and using masking tape for a pad, then re tightening, when the kid pulled a roll of duct tape out of his bag, and said "This'll do!" I went back to my bench.

These sort of people need education in the worst way. But, they will hopefully do what we did, which is trial and error, if we had no one who was gun savvy to teach us.

As you say, prudence is unfortunately necessary. Although the Garand and M1 Carbine, and '03-A3 have been used for years as sporting arms, there doesn't seem to be the same stigma attatched to them as to the later AR 15s, G3, SKS, and similar-appearing weapons.

We will never outrun ignorance and "soccer moms".
In my area, in preparation for pheasant season, a young fellow was carrying a wrapped shotgun into a friend's house.

This was right across from an elementary school, and someone saw him, and called 911.

I don't know whether to be glad someone was vigilant, angry at whoever it was that called, for not minding her business, or very saddened that we have regressed to such a state of fear. Perhaps a bit of each?

Sooo...That's how you spell "macho"...Being a chauvinist male I wouldn't have known...

If you get a brused shoulder you should be smart enough to use a shoulder pad. I do and shoot .30-30 and .30-06 all day at the range.

Hello fellow hunters:

First post here. I grew up hunting deer with shotgun slugs, but have taken them with bow and arrow, handguns, bolt-action rifles, and semi-auto rifles including M1 Garand and AR-15 (in Texas, were any centerfire was allowed).

My apologies for the length of this letter...but here is what I wrote in response to Mr. Zumbo's article on semi-auto rifles...and I think this has relevance for HuntingNut member Bushmaster:

______________
19 February 2007

Dear Fellow Hunters:

Mr. Jim Zumbo, the foremost authority on North American big game hunting, is the Hunting Editor for the popular outdoor sports magazine Outdoor Life. During his 40+ year career, Mr. Zumbo has published more than 1,500 articles in all the major outdoor magazines, and has authored 23 books. He enjoys the corporate sponsorship of Remington Arms, Swarovski optics, Gerber knives, Mossy Oak, Cabela's, Safari Club International, and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, among others. Suffice it to say that Mr. Zumbo has an immense readership and is widely known and well respected among hunting, sportsmen, and outdoor enthusiasts.

But just last week, Mr. Zumbo penned a poorly considered and hugely unpopular opinion, and posted the article on his Outdoor Life internet blog. In this article, Mr. Zumbo stated that so-called “assault weapons” were in reality “terrorist weapons”, that they were of no use to sportsmen and hunters, and that "We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern." He advised his readership to distance themselves from their fellow Americans who own and use these semi-automatic firearms. Of course, we all know that these weapons are in fact just semiauto rifles, and currently are the intense focus of state and federal gun ban legislation. They were given the name "assault weapons" by gun-ban organizations such as the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (formerly known as Handgun Control Inc.), in order to sway public opinion against them. Think about it. "Assault Weapon" is now a household term. I mean, who in their right mind wouldn't be against banning "Assault Weapons"? But what if they had more appropriately been named "Homeland Defense Weapons"? Would people then be so quick to banish them?

The firestorm of reaction to his article was, to say the least, of astounding magnitude. Outdoor Life’s blog page was literally choked with responses, attesting to the popularity of these rifles for hunting, varminting, target shooting, and self-defense. Internet sites devoted to hunting, outdoor sports, target shooting, and firearms are buzzing with disparaging talk of his article. American gun owners felt that Mr. Zumbo had stabbed them in the back. The readership’s reaction was so strong and swift that Jim retracted his statements and published an apology. One of his main sponsors, Remington Arms Co., severed their sponsorship ties to Jim. Moreover, Outdoor Life magazine was forced to close his blob, and make this statement:

“Outdoor Life has always been, and will always be, a steadfast supporter of our Second Amendment rights, which do not make distinctions based on the looks of the firearms we choose to own, shoot and take hunting.”

Almost immediately after Mr. Zumbo posted his article, the Brady Campaign posted it on their site, including this introductory text:

“Even Remington's top gun writer agrees on Assault Weapons. With important writers such as this on our side, it is clear that we have a cultural imperative to remove dangerous terrorist rifles from our streets, and our woods. Jim Zumbo is a writer for the prestigious Outdoor Life magazine and represents the views of America's true sportsmen. He is also sponsored by Remington.”

My point is this – our Second Amendment rights are under attack like never before. Hunters mistakenly think that their shotguns and rifles are safe from gun control legislation and outright bans. Mr. Zumbo might have thought that hunters would best protect their 2nd Amendment rights by distancing themselves from the semi-auto firearm crowd. Little did he know that semiauto rifles have become immensely popular among hunters, competition shooters, plinkers, and collectors. Mr. Zumbo knows better, now, and after that hard lesson realizes what you and I already know. It is time for all gun owners to come together on the same page, galvanized toward a common purpose. Together, we must protect our 2nd amendment rights. I am not trying to alarm you; I am telling you the truth, and this issue is one of grave seriousness. Here is why.

The Brady Campaign isn’t going to stop at semiauto rifles. They are also targeting bolt-action rifles, and are using the exact same tactic as they did in misnaming "assault weapons": they are re-naming our hunting guns "Sniper Rifles." But you might think that "Sniper Rifles" and hunting guns are different, right? From their web site (excerpted):

"The tragic proliferation of Sniper Rifles: Sniper Rifles are typically equipped with a high-powered scope, and every single one of them can blow through the body armor cops wear. Does the Second Amendment protect cop-killer Sniper Rifles? The NRA certainly thinks so, along with the powerful gun lobby that wants your children and your law enforcement officers to be at risk from these weapons of mass destruction. Senator Ted Kennedy attempted to solve this with a bill that would have banned armor piercing ammunition [Author's Note: any centerfire hunting cartridge will defeat certain body armor] and protected lawful firearm commerce. Said Kennedy: 'Another rifle caliber, the .30-'30, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines....It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America.' Sniper Rifles can be equipped with precision optics…allowing a sniper to deliver rounds within millimeters of accuracy - enabling them to engage targets at distances of well over one hundred meters. Is there a pressing need to be able to kill with accuracy at that distance? It is too far to justify as self defense. It is too far for hunting."

Yes, read it again! Kennedy is talking about .30-'30 ammunition, the kind used in some of the most popular deer hunting rifles of all time, the Winchester and Marlin lever-actions! Grandpa's old .30-'30 is now being referred to as a "Sniper Rifle", a tool of terrorists. Other choice phrases from the Brady Campaign piece on "Sniper Rifles" (i.e. our scoped, bolt-action hunting rifles):

"Sniper Rifles have been used by murderers and spree killers for years"
"only useful for those who wish to murder from afar"
"have no place in the hunting fields of America and hunting usage should not be used as an argument for civilians to own such firearms and weapons"
"restrict the deadly spread of long distance murder rifles"

My friends and fellow hunters, do not believe for a minute that certain, highly influential people will stop at banning semi-auto rifles. The Brady Campaign article refers to scoped deer rifles that are able to kill from more than 100 yards…incidentally the very same range at which most whitetail hunters zero their rifles…and claim that 100 yards is "too far for hunting." Please, do not be fooled when Michael Moore says in his "Liberal's Pledge" - "We will not take away your hunting guns." They do want to take away our hunting rifles and ammunition, as well as semiautomatic firearms. They will employ tactics to sway public opinion and they will vilify hunters and their hunting rifles. And they will convince state and federal legislators to ban them if we do not oppose them now, together.

As a supporter of hunting and presumably the 2nd Amendment as well, are you going to stand by and allow legislators to ban semi-autos, when you know full well our hunting firearms are next? It is time to come together on common ground to oppose the intensifying assaults on our right to keep and bear arms, and along with it, our right to hunt with them.

We as sportsman and gun enthusiasts, we must stick together regardless of our differences on choices and personal preferences on rifles. That's what the anti's want, pit us against each other. Just because I own an AK and might do some hunting with it and Joe doesn't own one and never would...So be it. lets leave it at that. But don't bash my guns and I won't bash yours.

www.remington.com/libr...2007-1.asp

Quote::

Remington to Sever Sponsorship Ties with Jim Zumbo Madison, North Carolina – As a result of comments made by Mr. Jim Zumbo in recent postings on his blog site, Remington Arms Company, Inc., has severed all sponsorship ties with Mr. Zumbo effective immediately. While Mr. Zumbo is entitled to his opinions and has the constitutional right to freely express those opinions, these comments are solely his, and do not reflect the views of Remington. “Remington has spent tens of millions of dollars defending our Second Amendment rights to privately own and possess firearms and we will continue to vigorously fight to protect these rights,” commented Tommy Millner, Remington’s CEO and President. “As hunters and shooters of all interest levels, we should strive to utilize this unfortunate occurrence to unite as a whole in support of our Second Amendment rights.” We regret having to terminate our long-standing relationship with Mr. Zumbo, who is a well-respected writer and life-long hunter.

-DallanC