HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: IPutMoInYoA
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13131

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 353
BOT: 2
Total: 355
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Forums
03: Home
04: Home
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Your Account
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Your Account
13: Forums
14: Your Account
15: Home
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Home
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Your Account
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Home
36: Photo Albums
37: Home
38: Your Account
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Your Account
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Home
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Home
51: Your Account
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Your Account
58: Forums
59: Your Account
60: Your Account
61: Forums
62: Your Account
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Home
66: Home
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Your Account
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Home
74: Home
75: Your Account
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Your Account
79: Forums
80: News
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Your Account
86: Forums
87: Home
88: Your Account
89: Home
90: Photo Albums
91: Home
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Your Account
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Your Account
101: Your Account
102: Forums
103: Your Account
104: Forums
105: Your Account
106: Home
107: Forums
108: Your Account
109: Your Account
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Home
115: News
116: Forums
117: Your Account
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Articles: Topics
121: Your Account
122: Your Account
123: Your Account
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Your Account
128: Forums
129: Home
130: Forums
131: Your Account
132: Your Account
133: Home
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Your Account
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Home
144: Forums
145: Your Account
146: Your Account
147: Forums
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Your Account
151: PointBlank Ballistics
152: Your Account
153: Home
154: Home
155: Your Account
156: Forums
157: Your Account
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Your Account
163: Forums
164: Home
165: Your Account
166: Home
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Home
170: Forums
171: Your Account
172: Your Account
173: Home
174: Your Account
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Home
179: Forums
180: Home
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: News
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Photo Albums
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Your Account
191: Your Account
192: Forums
193: Your Account
194: Your Account
195: Home
196: Photo Albums
197: Forums
198: Home
199: Home
200: Home
201: Forums
202: Forums
203: Forums
204: Your Account
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Home
208: Your Account
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Forums
214: Your Account
215: Forums
216: Home
217: Forums
218: Forums
219: Your Account
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Home
223: Home
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Your Account
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Home
230: Your Account
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Your Account
235: Forums
236: News
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Your Account
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Forums
248: Your Account
249: Forums
250: Forums
251: Forums
252: Home
253: Your Account
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Home
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Home
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Home
270: News
271: Your Account
272: Your Account
273: Photo Albums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Your Account
277: Forums
278: Forums
279: Forums
280: Photo Albums
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Home
284: Forums
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Your Account
291: Your Account
292: Forums
293: Your Account
294: Your Account
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Home
298: Forums
299: Your Account
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Forums
304: Your Account
305: Your Account
306: Your Account
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Forums
310: Forums
311: Home
312: Forums
313: Forums
314: Your Account
315: Forums
316: Your Account
317: Forums
318: Forums
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Your Account
322: Forums
323: Your Account
324: Home
325: Your Account
326: Forums
327: Your Account
328: Forums
329: Your Account
330: Forums
331: Home
332: Your Account
333: Forums
334: Forums
335: Forums
336: Forums
337: Your Account
338: Forums
339: Forums
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Your Account
346: Home
347: Your Account
348: Your Account
349: Forums
350: Home
351: Forums
352: Forums
353: Home
  BOT:
01: Home
02: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2452
  · Views: 824588
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
204Shooter
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Diana, TX

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

Jack, Handloader, PaulS, Morax, thanks a lot for your input. I am always amazed at the talent this web site has. I couldn't get a better discussion of loads for short barrel rifles if I paid for it. This web site is truly a hand loaders dream. Thanks for all you guys do.
Jerry

_________________
Life is a series of choices. It is how we manage those choices that counts.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
204Shooter
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Diana, TX

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

Jack, Handloader, PaulS, Morax, thanks a lot for your input. I am always amazed at the talent this web site has. I couldn't get a better discussion of loads for short barrel rifles if I paid for it. This web site is truly a hand loaders dream. Thanks for all you guys do.
Jerry

_________________
Life is a series of choices. It is how we manage those choices that counts.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
204Shooter
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Diana, TX

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

Jack, Handloader, PaulS, Morax, thanks a lot for your input. I am always amazed at the talent this web site has. I couldn't get a better discussion of loads for short barrel rifles if I paid for it. This web site is truly a hand loaders dream. Thanks for all you guys do.
Jerry

_________________
Life is a series of choices. It is how we manage those choices that counts.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Morax
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 18, 2006
Posts: 618
Location: Pittsburgh Pa

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

SAHUNTER wrote:
While still off the subject from "Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win", Morax,Handloader and PaulS what are your relevant opinions of the muzzle blast (flame) seen from some rifles that is visible at nigh or in the dark?

well it sure isnt spent burnt powder cause if it is all burnt then its not on fire...
Back to top
View user's profile
Handloader
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

SAHUNTER

It's good to see a new member from South Africa! Welcome to the forums and I hope to see you post often and give your perspective on issues from your region.

Specific to PaulS' post, there is a distinct relationship between pressure and temperature. Raise one, raise the other. The optimum powder choice is typically one that gives high volumetric fill along with the highest potential velocity. This is why the Nosler manuals give some added data in that they show graphically the relationship between volume and velocity. In general, highest velocities are obtained with highest volume. As the data is read, selecting from Nosler the powder that gives both is one of the best powders to begin with for load development.

Muzzle flash is a combination of several factors. Ultra slow motion film will show muzzle flash prior to the exit of the bullet! In those cases, it is attributed to the column of air inside the barrel being pushed and compressed ahead of the accelerating bullet and that superheated air column will ignite the oxygen in proximity to the muzzle. The flash associated with muzzle blast occurs after the bullet has left the barrel and is affected by temperature of those gases further igniting oxygen outside the barrel as well as the volatility of the gasses themselves. The type of powder and the type of deterence coatings on the powder alter this flame signature.

At least, IMO.
Back to top
View user's profile
Handloader
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

SAHUNTER

It's good to see a new member from South Africa! Welcome to the forums and I hope to see you post often and give your perspective on issues from your region.

Specific to PaulS' post, there is a distinct relationship between pressure and temperature. Raise one, raise the other. The optimum powder choice is typically one that gives high volumetric fill along with the highest potential velocity. This is why the Nosler manuals give some added data in that they show graphically the relationship between volume and velocity. In general, highest velocities are obtained with highest volume. As the data is read, selecting from Nosler the powder that gives both is one of the best powders to begin with for load development.

Muzzle flash is a combination of several factors. Ultra slow motion film will show muzzle flash prior to the exit of the bullet! In those cases, it is attributed to the column of air inside the barrel being pushed and compressed ahead of the accelerating bullet and that superheated air column will ignite the oxygen in proximity to the muzzle. The flash associated with muzzle blast occurs after the bullet has left the barrel and is affected by temperature of those gases further igniting oxygen outside the barrel as well as the volatility of the gasses themselves. The type of powder and the type of deterence coatings on the powder alter this flame signature.

At least, IMO.
Back to top
View user's profile
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

Muzzle blast is superheated carbon and ash. It is what leaves "powder burns" when a gun is used within two feet to shoot someone. None of that residue will burn - its not powder. It is the additives to the powder that are used to slow it down or smooth propagation.

For you two, Bushmaster and Vince, I will slow down the talk.
The powder that comes closest to filling the case while getting pressures closest to the maximum is the powder that is ideal for the cartridge. It is the powder that will give the highest velocity regardless of the barrel length. Changing the barrel length doesn't change the case capacity or the pressure. It only changes the length of time the pressure pushes on the bullet. The pressure curve only changes if you change the bullet, case volume or tempurature. The primer can also affect the curve but only to a certain degree and mostly that part of the curve on the way up to maximum.
It all means that you use the same powder for your load whether you have a 26 inch barrel or a 10 inch barrel. If you don't like the flash or blast and you are willing to give up velocity you can use a slightly faster burning powder. It won't make the bullet go as fast but it will give less blast and flash - when the gasses cool down there is less blast because the pressure is dropping faster and you get less flash because when the gasses cool so does the ash and carbon. Heat is what causes pressure and heat won't go down until the pressure does.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15721
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

Yep, makes sense to me now. Very Happy

Thanks Paul, writing it slower allowed it to come across slower and clearer.
Laughing Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11393
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

I believe this theory works for longer barrels. But try as I might I couldn't get 1100 fps from a 2 1/2" barreled .357 magnum using H110, W-296 or 2400. These fore mentioned powders filled the case. I was able to get 1100+ fps using W-231 though and it doesn't even come close to filling the case. I was using a 125 grain SJHP. PaulS...Can you explain this?

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

Bushmaster,
With a shorter barrel you lose speed no matter what. But you will never get a "faster burning" powder to give higher speeds than those slower powders that give the highest speeds with a long barrel.

No matter how long the barrel is, H110 will always give more velocity than WW231 or bullseye in the same gun with the same barrel length.

We were discussing whether a person should load a faster powder when using a shorter barrel to get better velocity out of it. The answer is no, the faster powders will not give higher velocities no matter how short the barrel is.

Is it clear as mud now? :^)

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
204Shooter
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Diana, TX

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
The powder that comes closest to filling the case while getting pressures closest to the maximum is the powder that is ideal for the cartridge.

PaulS,
Based on this input, one might think we should load powder charges based on volumetric data rather than weight (i.e. just fill the case up to a mark near the top). However, as you know we always weigh charges. I would think that if the powder manufacturers could control the weight to volume measurement precisely then the volume charge method would make sense and probably be a better way to load charges.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

We weigh the charch to make sure we put in the right amount for the cartridge - If we select the right powder for maximum performance it will very nearly fill the case. I set my charges by weight (weigh it on the scale) to set my powder dispenser. Then I throw the charges with the dispenser - I only weigh every 20th charge - In reality I am loading by volume but I am loading a specific weight of charge by volume.
I have found that loading cartridges with double base powders, I get better results with thrown charges rather than weighing each charge on the scale.
Paul

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Handloader
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

Measured charges can give superb results. In fact many benchrest and competition shooters measure rather than weigh. This presumes a top notch powder measure and a reasonably even powder column as well as the selection of powders that meter well plus a consistent throw. Visual inspection of each cartridge is an absolute as some powders (Trail Boss or long stick stuff) can bridge in the measure and give a short charge on one case and an overcharge on the next.

I have an old Belding and Mull powder measure that does yeoman service and is amazingly consistent. The Redding Match grade measure does a great job for me as well. Even the Lee powder dippers can be effective, amazingly if the technique for their use is learned, although, they limit options somewhat.

The scale's job is to set the measure and to recheck periodically. When setting the measure, let's say for 40grains, I set the scale for 200 grains and drop five charges into the pan to see if it is, in fact, 200 grains. Once the measure is charging consistently, I can then fill the cases, being careful to keep the powder column in the measure reasonably at the same height.

Powder measures should be cleaned and maintained regularly. Cleaning the charging drum or bar and removing any accumulated coating from the powder assures a smooth motion of the charge handle. That smooth consistent motion is a key to uniform charge weight.
Back to top
View user's profile
longshots
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Need help with load for a short barrel .243 Win Reply with quote

204shooter, I had a NEF in .243 and it did well with 95gr BT's over IMR 4350. The load is in the Nosler manual and you can adjust as necessary. I got 1" groups out of it, good luck.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.