HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 607
BOT: 1
Total: 608
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Home
08: Forums
09: Home
10: Forums
11: Your Account
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Photo Albums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Home
26: Photo Albums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Your Account
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Photo Albums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Your Account
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Home
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Statistics
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Home
62: Photo Albums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Your Account
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Your Account
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Photo Albums
76: Your Account
77: Home
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Home
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Photo Albums
93: Forums
94: Home
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Photo Albums
99: Photo Albums
100: Home
101: Photo Albums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Home
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Photo Albums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Photo Albums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Home
119: Forums
120: Your Account
121: Forums
122: Your Account
123: Photo Albums
124: Your Account
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Your Account
128: Forums
129: Your Account
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Home
137: Your Account
138: Your Account
139: Forums
140: News
141: Forums
142: Home
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Your Account
147: Forums
148: Your Account
149: Home
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Your Account
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Forums
158: Home
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Photo Albums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Photo Albums
165: Your Account
166: Photo Albums
167: Photo Albums
168: Forums
169: Home
170: Your Account
171: Forums
172: Photo Albums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Your Account
177: Forums
178: Home
179: Forums
180: Photo Albums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Forums
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Photo Albums
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Your Account
196: Photo Albums
197: Forums
198: Your Account
199: Forums
200: Your Account
201: Photo Albums
202: Forums
203: Photo Albums
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Your Account
209: Forums
210: Your Account
211: Forums
212: Photo Albums
213: Forums
214: Photo Albums
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Your Account
218: Forums
219: Home
220: Your Account
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Home
224: Your Account
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Photo Albums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Photo Albums
236: Forums
237: Your Account
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Your Account
242: Photo Albums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Home
247: Photo Albums
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Forums
251: Photo Albums
252: Forums
253: Home
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Your Account
257: Home
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Photo Albums
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Your Account
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Photo Albums
278: Forums
279: Forums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Photo Albums
283: Your Account
284: Photo Albums
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Photo Albums
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Home
297: Forums
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Your Account
303: Forums
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Home
310: Forums
311: Forums
312: Forums
313: Forums
314: Forums
315: Forums
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Your Account
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Home
322: Home
323: Your Account
324: Photo Albums
325: Forums
326: Forums
327: Forums
328: Forums
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Photo Albums
332: Forums
333: Forums
334: Home
335: Forums
336: Forums
337: Forums
338: Photo Albums
339: Photo Albums
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Forums
347: Your Account
348: Home
349: Forums
350: Your Account
351: Forums
352: Home
353: Forums
354: Forums
355: Home
356: Forums
357: Forums
358: Forums
359: Forums
360: Forums
361: Forums
362: Forums
363: Your Account
364: Your Account
365: Forums
366: Home
367: Home
368: Forums
369: Your Account
370: Forums
371: Forums
372: Forums
373: Forums
374: Forums
375: Your Account
376: Forums
377: Photo Albums
378: Forums
379: Forums
380: Forums
381: Forums
382: Forums
383: Forums
384: Forums
385: Forums
386: Forums
387: Forums
388: Forums
389: Forums
390: Your Account
391: Your Account
392: Your Account
393: Forums
394: Your Account
395: Forums
396: Home
397: Forums
398: Photo Albums
399: Home
400: Photo Albums
401: Your Account
402: Your Account
403: Forums
404: Forums
405: Forums
406: Home
407: Your Account
408: Forums
409: Forums
410: Photo Albums
411: Home
412: Forums
413: Your Account
414: Your Account
415: Photo Albums
416: Forums
417: Forums
418: Home
419: Home
420: Forums
421: Your Account
422: Home
423: Photo Albums
424: Forums
425: Forums
426: Home
427: Forums
428: Forums
429: Forums
430: Forums
431: Photo Albums
432: Forums
433: Forums
434: Forums
435: Forums
436: Forums
437: Home
438: Forums
439: Photo Albums
440: Forums
441: Your Account
442: Your Account
443: Your Account
444: Forums
445: Home
446: Forums
447: Forums
448: Forums
449: Forums
450: Forums
451: Forums
452: Forums
453: Forums
454: Home
455: Your Account
456: Home
457: Forums
458: Forums
459: Forums
460: Forums
461: Photo Albums
462: Forums
463: Photo Albums
464: Photo Albums
465: Your Account
466: Your Account
467: Your Account
468: Forums
469: Forums
470: Home
471: Forums
472: Your Account
473: Forums
474: Forums
475: Forums
476: Forums
477: Home
478: Forums
479: Forums
480: Your Account
481: Forums
482: Your Account
483: Forums
484: Forums
485: Forums
486: Forums
487: Photo Albums
488: Forums
489: Your Account
490: Forums
491: Forums
492: Forums
493: Your Account
494: Forums
495: Forums
496: Forums
497: Forums
498: Forums
499: Forums
500: Photo Albums
501: Photo Albums
502: Forums
503: Your Account
504: Photo Albums
505: Your Account
506: Photo Albums
507: Forums
508: Forums
509: Forums
510: Home
511: Your Account
512: Forums
513: Forums
514: Photo Albums
515: Photo Albums
516: Forums
517: Forums
518: Your Account
519: Forums
520: Forums
521: Forums
522: Forums
523: Photo Albums
524: Forums
525: Home
526: Forums
527: Forums
528: Photo Albums
529: Forums
530: Forums
531: Home
532: Forums
533: Forums
534: Forums
535: Forums
536: Photo Albums
537: Forums
538: Your Account
539: Forums
540: Forums
541: Forums
542: Forums
543: Forums
544: Forums
545: Forums
546: Forums
547: Forums
548: Forums
549: Forums
550: Photo Albums
551: Forums
552: Home
553: Forums
554: Forums
555: Forums
556: Forums
557: Forums
558: Forums
559: Forums
560: Forums
561: Your Account
562: Photo Albums
563: Forums
564: Forums
565: Forums
566: Forums
567: Your Account
568: Forums
569: Forums
570: Forums
571: Photo Albums
572: Your Account
573: Forums
574: Forums
575: Photo Albums
576: Forums
577: Forums
578: Home
579: Forums
580: Forums
581: Forums
582: Forums
583: Forums
584: Forums
585: Forums
586: Your Account
587: Forums
588: Forums
589: Forums
590: Your Account
591: Forums
592: Forums
593: Forums
594: Photo Albums
595: Forums
596: Your Account
597: Forums
598: Forums
599: Forums
600: Photo Albums
601: Your Account
602: Forums
603: Forums
604: Home
605: Your Account
606: Forums
607: Forums
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Is controlled round feed overated ?
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
roklok
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

I have read dozens of articles extolling the virtues of the Mauser style controlled round feed actions, especially for dangerous game hunting. Many of them state that with CRF the rifle will even function upside down. So, I was rearranging my gun safe today and decided to do an experiment. I took my Rem 700 .35 Whelen, Ruger 77 .35 Whelen, Rem 700 .270, Rem model 7 .223, and Winchester 70 .30-06 out of the safe. All push feed actions except for the Winchester 70 which is supposed to be CRF (more on that later) . I then fully loaded the magazines, turned them upside down and worked the actions at different speeds from very slow to briskly until the magazines were empty. The results? All functioned flawlessly except the Winchester model 70. The Winchester would consistently jam the last rounds nose against the breech instead of entering the chamber. Another advantage claimed is that with CRF the bolt controls the round from the time it pushs it forwards from the magazine so if the shooter pulls the bolt rearward before going fully forward it wont double feed and cause a jam. I discovered that my Winchester model 70, touted to be a CRF, is a push feed gun when the round is coming from the left side of the staggered box magazine. The claw extractor only engages the cartridge right away when the cartridge is feeding from the right side of the magazine. So its only CRF half the time. I am not knocking the Winchester 70, I like them, and it might not be a fair comparison to only test one CRF rifle but thats the only one I own. Maybe with the Larger magnum calibers in the various Mauser actions there is an advantage. I dont feel the least bit hesitant though, even hunting dangerous game, with the Rem 700.
Back to top
View user's profile
Handloader
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

Remingtons have been used for DG hunting in Africa, Asia and Alaska with success. They are, however, more prone to problems in the field than the CRF models offered by CZ, Winchester and Mauser variants. One of the primary advantages of CRF is the size of the extractor and its ability to extract reliably under extremes of weather. Look at the extractor ring on the Remington. It is small in contact area and vulnerable to premature failure.

When guiding, I've had hunters double stroke Remingtons and loose shots on game. I've had two experiences with broken extractors. I've seen three Remington bolts freeze up after a hard rain and a cold night. Ice formed in the bolt and the firing pin couldn't move either forward or backward thus prohibiting it from cocking. With most CRFs, the take down of the bolt is fast and easy and that enables clearing the firing pin and spring of any debris or ice. It takes about one minute to do this.

While not disputing your issues with your particular M70, it is something I have never witnessed or experienced in decades of hunting with them.

Often Remingtons are modified with a Sako extractor to overcome their potential weakness and it is a good modification IMO.

CRF rfles or Sako style extractors dominate DG rifles in Alaska and Africa. If one contacts outfitters, they will often mention brands such as Kimber and Tikka for extreme weather hunting, along with M70s and Mauser variants. These recommendations are based on years of experience, although, not all outfitters support those recommendations nor is CRF needed in most hunting/varminting situations.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

Well there is alot of things to consider between the action here is a small list of things I've gathered from a gun "expert" which forgot more about guns before his death then I know:

-> They can handle higher pressures then claw feed actions because they support the case better.
-> They are used in almost all semi-automatic rifle designs out there.
-> Accurizing a push feed is alot easyer then a claw feed which can be at times almost impossible. (High Power shooters may disagree).
-> The extractor doesn't fail enough to make it worth it for when they designed the M40 rifle that it was worth putting in a Sako style extractor.

Also about the Sako extractors:

Gale McMillian wrote:
When I designed the Marine M40A1 we considered replacing the extractor but when we researched extractor failure we found it so incidental it wasn't worth considering . The problem with installing the a M16 or Sako extractor is when you blow a primmer it turns to shrapnel

Because of not only Gale's logic on the rifles but just taking and applying in my head his reasoning I can see why he is right so because of that I sort of got sold on Push Feed actions.

Claw feed actions have a use, and they are good rifles don't get me wrong but I've never double stoked a rifle because I always pull the bolt till it "hits" then all the way forward agian so that benifit of them I've never seen in person. Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

Aah...except in Combat...How often to you shoot dangerous game lying on your back and shooting upside down? Just curious here...

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Coyote_Hunter_
Member
Member


Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 208
Location: Franktown, CO

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

It depends on what you are hunting and how big a bite it has.

_________________
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Arizona Hunter
Member
Member


Joined: Jul 22, 2006
Posts: 275

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

When I first looked at a big game rifle I was really into Finn Aagaard articles and since he was a Mauser type guy, I decided to get one, too and have always liked them very much and plan on using them for as long as I can- Love my Interarms Mark X and Swedish Mauser--but I also love my Howa push feed rifle, it sure is fun on prairie dogs and targets.

I guess if I was going on dangerous game hunt I'd feel more comfortable with a Mauser than a push feed type.
Back to top
View user's profile
roklok
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

Ah, Finn Aagaard, I really miss his writing. I too thought a lot of his opinions, which is what turned me on to the .35 Whelen. I was all set to buy a new rifle on my 18th birthday in July of 1992 but was not sure what caliber to buy. I wanted a versatile caliber that I could hunt anything in North America with. In the June 1992 American Rifleman Magazine he wrote an article praising the .35 Whelen, its versatility and knockdown power. A month later I bought a Rem 700 .35 Whelen as a 18th birthday present to myself. Since then I have bought various other rifles but the Whelen is still my go to rifle on serious hunts. It always bothered me a little though that it wasnt CRF, but I never had a problem with any of my push feed rifles so I quit worrying about it.
Back to top
View user's profile
Arizona Hunter
Member
Member


Joined: Jul 22, 2006
Posts: 275

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

Roklok, sometimes when I think about getting a rifle with more frontal area that is still easy to shoot I always think of the 35 Whelen (and 338 win).

Would you feel comfortable using the 35 Whelen shooting something like an X bullet or A-Frame on big bears?

When Finn passed away I was truly heavy hearted, I felt like my mentor had died, he was and still is my favorite writer (although John Barness is exellent), I still pull out his book once in a while and re-read the articles on various calibers.
Back to top
View user's profile
roklok
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

I would not hesitate to use the Whelen on the big bears, in fact I hope to this fall. My handloads with 250 grain Nosler Partitions are clocking right at 2550 FPS out of a 22" barrel, only about a hundred FPS less than Rem lists the .338 Win Mag with a 250 gr out of a 24" barrel. Finn used his Whelen (built on a Mauser of course) on a brown bear hunt using the 250 gr Nosler Partition. Finn also stated that the .35 Whelen is the ballistic match of the .350 Rigby Magnum (225gr at 2625 FPS) that gained a great reputation in Africa on dangerous game. Although I have seen brown bears I have never been up close and personal with one yet, I imagine in that situation any rifle might seem a bit small, but I have no doubt that the Whelen can handle it. I am thinking about buying a box of the Swift A-Frame 280 grain and working up a load, From what I read I should get about 2400 FPS with the 280s.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 7 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.