Vince wrote:

I also agree 100% with both Bushy and Joe. Wildswalker, I won't argue with your methods and practises mate. They aren't wrong or incorrect....just different to what I do. Everyone to their own. As I said......."If it works for you...go for it." Cheers, Vince

Pretty boring website if everyone din't have things new or different to talk about or try.........

Not looking for an arguement, apparently all y'all are tho.........................

shrpshtrjoe wrote:

I think the more familiar you are with the rifle/load combo the better off ya are. Then if I miss hunting all I can blame is my self Joe

Following the context of everything said so far....this statement infers that someone is NOT familiar with their "hunting" load if they do not practice with that "hunting" load.

The whole point I'm trying to make, to those that care, is that it IS possible to get that from a cheaper bullet.

More shooting equates to more familiarity, if both loads perform the same, IOW hit the same POA at any given range, why is it so difficult to grasp the concept of what I'm doing?

It's not anything new, I didn't invent it...................

Wildswalker...I also said that I had developed a cheaper load for my A-bolt .30-06 and that I used a better bullet for my "jack handle" because it would only shoot the better bullets and not the cheap ones accurately. So I went both ways, but it still is a matter of preference and not that big of a deal...

Basicly everyone's right here on this subject.

Bushmaster wrote:

Basicly everyone's right here on this subject.

Once again Bushy, you hit the nail squarely on the head.

Wildswalker wrote:

Not looking for an arguement, apparently all y'all are tho.......................

Not lookin' for an argument mate......just enjoying the debate, and the benefit of your experience. Part of the reason I use the same bullet for the range and hunting is because I use cheaper bullets anywayz.

The bullet I use in my Weatherby Vanguard is the 80 gn Remington PSP. I buy them for AUD$19, bulk in bags of 100.
The bullet I use in my Mod 94 30.30 is the Winchester 150gn PPFN....again in bulk and only AUD$30 per hundred.

Both of these bullets work well in my rifles so I haven't found a need to go to a more expensive bullet. But then again I don't hunt Elk, Moose or Bear cause we don't have them in Australia.

If it helps, you have given me food for thought though. Might have a look at a more expensive bullet down the track a little, although I do believe in the old adage of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Cheers, Vince

Bushmaster wrote:

Wildswalker...I also said that I had developed a cheaper load for my A-bolt .30-06 and that I used a better bullet for my "jack handle" because it would only shoot the better bullets and not the cheap ones accurately. So I went both ways, but it still is a matter of preference and not that big of a deal... Basicly everyone's right here on this subject.

I know what you said........

Appreciate though, how you pass it off as no big deal....Pard.

Gettin' more bang for the buck IS a big deal to some, prolly not mainstream though, and few G&A articles cover it.

Sorry, was that cramin' somethin' down someones throat?

What's your '06 load?

I use a 168 Hornady Match/168 TSX with 50.0 grains of RL 15. 2860 fps., again sub MOA groups. Near identicle BC's and ogive profile. I seat the Match .025 off the lands and the TSX .050 off. 100 yards is +2.75 MOA, 250 is zero'd, 500 is a 7 MOA come up.

Got some RL 19 test loads to run...to try a slower powder. Not likin' though that the upper end is a slightly compressed load. Not diggin' that..........

Vince....

Much is different betwixt your place and mine......

I like to shoot, my boys shoot a lot as does my wife. We live in Boondocks USA and we've a 200 yard range right here at the house, hangin' steel, the real deal. We've several places also, to get out to 1000 yards or more. The only limit on shooting for us is the cost, thus the desire to have a cheaper bullet.

I know full well that there's a lot of non premium bullets out there that would serve me well as a hunting bullet. Been down that road and wound up with several completely different loads...too many powders and not enough time to shoot as much as I wanted.

I'm a fan of one rifle, one load, one main purpose.....with the ability to sideline if needed.

My quest then became to find a really good hunting bullet that would/could cover a lot of bases. IOW, say I primarily hunt deer. Here they are in the 200+ pound range. Deer ain't tuff to kill but hittin' 'em sometimes is due to the geography, timber, brush, ect.....

To up my game, I sought out accuracy and speed. To get that you build/buy a rifle that is twisted right to be accurate and you work up a light bullet. The problem is, that lighter cup and core bullets, IMO, are not gonna do the job at the far edge of your limitations. The advent of the X bullet gives you a lighter bullet that's gonna get there fast, accurate and do the damage of a heavier slower bullet.

Preference is right, and my preference is to hit hard at long range, sneak that bullet through a tiny hole in the timber, have a bullet that is retaining it's weight througout the wound channel....and do all that without a lot of fiddlin' with different loads.

The 25-06 I've spoke of is my designated hitter for deer, but, bear are also a target of opportunity during deer season, as well as woofs and such. Should a bear worth shooting make an entrance, I'm confident that the 115 TSX is gonna blow out the lungs and put him on the pole. I've bigger rifles but remember I'm huntin' deer first, and deer ain't that hard to kill. One tool multitasking.

Should I be hunting moose or elk the 30-06 gets the nod with the 168 TSX as I believe that is a perfect blend of chambering/bullet per those critters if the boundaries are kept, which I've never had trouble doing. I'm getting the terminal effect of a 200 plus in a lighter faster more accurate bullet.

If the bulk bullets are doin' you right who am I to say different. Here, where I hunt, he who can deal precision death is gonna have more in the freezer...................

59 grains of H4831SC under a 165 grain Sierra HPBT. Using Winchester cases and WLR primers...2730 fps from a 22" barreled Browning A-Bolt. It soes what I want it to do at 200 yards...

What's your load density with H4831SC..?

According to the charts I have on hand H4831 is a few bumps slower that RL19. None list the short cut version, but I'll assume its close and still slower than RL 19.

The reason I ask is 19 sports compressed charges...something I try to avoid.

Personal preference........

IIRC IMR 4831 did also and thus me skipped over the Hodgdon version for that reason.

Does the SC drop in fairly well?

I like 85 to 90% load density.

I have bullets that I hunt with period,(mostly Hornady XTP's & Speer rifle bullets) But....when practising for the big hunt, I sacrifice a few of them to get ready. I also have cheap play around "shoot the can" type bullets that I buy in bulk, mostly of the plated variety for use in my Desert Eagles, lead bullets I cast myself and when I cast, I dont know enough to stop, I cast both plinkers and heavy hunting bullets for all the calibers I have.

Seeing as how I stay inside 250 yards , it's really not to difficult to load two different bullets to same ( or darn near it ) POI ...

Having swap bullets is the primary reason I'm considering reloading.

For different reasons though not a cost factor but a training and familierization factor.

Would like to get a hunting roung and a match round as close as possible once I get a bolt action rifle, that way I can practice with both and ether on paper or in the field I'll be able be confident with the one rifle.

Dimitri

Wildswalker...Hodgdon H4831SC (Short Cut) meters much better then H4831. Powder density? H4831SC fills the case. It becomes a compressed charge at somewhere between 61 to 62 grains. Depending on how long the bullet is. Sierra V Edition Second printing lists a maximum charge of H4831SC for the Sierra 165 grain HPBT at 58.7 grains. Whereas Lyman 48th Edition lists H4831 (either can be used for either listing) and a
Sierra 168 grain HPBT 61.5 maximum powder charge (note that I'm using a Sierra 165 gr HPBT). Which is a compressed load. I found that above 59 grains of H4831SC and a Sierra 165 grain HPBT was as fast as the bullet would go from my browning. Going to a higher powder charge did not give any more speed or advantage. I'm not loading "barn burners" and don't feel the need for them. At 2730 fps most (if not all) big game on this continent will fall to these specifications and won't feel the (socalled) benifits of a faster bullet within the 100 to 300 yard range. And like Groovy Jack, I try to stay within that 200 yard range +/- a couple yards. I'm a hunter not a sniper...

I'll gladly take a 10 yard shot, on big game, over anything else if such presents...but the real world reality doesn't hand that to a feller every time and being able to get the most out of a chambering should it be needed, is.......purty handy.

Being a "sniper" has little to do with anything in my book as I define hunting as putting one's self in the position of reliably tagging a critter, often times that translates to doing it on my terms not that of the animal. Simply stated I take advantage of any advantage I can legally and ethically muster. Shooting a critter that's farther than I can reasonably sneak within a reasonable time frame....is just making a good shot to me.

I do shoot a lot out at long range and though that is wide open and considered "play" it no how represents any misgiving on my part as to the limitations upon which ethical big game slaying rest, regarding bullet performance. There is a limit........

200 yards is a chip shot if you know your gear...and 300 is where real load development begins. 500 is the far reaching maximum I'd ever attempt on any big game critter if the chambering I sported, supported it.

The 2990 I get from a 115 grain bullet out of my favorite deer rifle is modest by my standards and nothing I'd consider barnburnerish. It just simply dialed in at that speed with the best OCW per my load development. Bullet impact is controlled soley by my twisting turrets and speed has little to do with that....being a function of MOA and the understanding of such.

Speed is a by product of wanting a lighter bullet to do the job of a heavier bullet within the boundaries of ethical big game slaying. The holy grail of which is the TSX, IMHO. A flat trajectory much superceeds a not so flat trajectory in many regards. A flat trajectory takes a lot of fiddlefart and worry outta making a shot that others wouldn't attempt with slower projectiles. As stated before, my rifles all, for the most part, zero in the 250 yard range which is basically a point and shoot affair under most conditions. That seems to be...purty handy as well.

Not a big fan of short changing myself per rifle sharpness and can equate such as attempting to cape a critter with a dull knife...just not in my game plan. Pun there..........

For example.....most of the recreational hunters in these parts woulda passed on the Big Daddy I had in the glass last evening. Was out and about looking for chucks to whack with my favorite deer rifle. Was totin' my 115 grain nosler BT varmit loads that coincidentally match a perfect ballistic print out of the 115 TSX loads I use on deer, the handiness of that is the crux of this whole thread......

While chuck hunting, I often get the opportunity to view deer that are gonna need killin' come November.....

Last evening was no exception and I viewed three bucks in a distant oat field via my Ziess 10X through a break in the trees. All in velvet, one was a dink, one was to be an iffy booner....and one was to be a true monster. Had that been deer season, due to the fickle uncooperative nature of the wind at the time, my choices were to pass, try to sneak across the hay field I was in, or take the shot from where I was at. The terrain dictated using common sense and trying to sneak across the wide open field, down into the wooded draw between us and up over the sloping oat field, was out of the question.....if I really wanted the deer.

Passing on the shot woulda been no option either......

I ranged them at 377 yards to the Big Boy, looked at my cheat sheet and quickly deduced a 3 MOA come up woulda put a TSX in the boiler room....all that was needed was a solid rest and a steady trigger squeeze.

Much is gained by keeping things sharp..................

Huh!! Most of my game have been taken with a 1948 Winchester Mod 94 .30 WCF (including one at 4 yards [12 feet]). I'm a tracker and still hunter...Longest shot with the .30-06 was 120 yards. If you can't get close to what you plan to shoot you need to go to "Trackers School of Stealth"...

If ya wanna take long shots , thats your right I suppose .. I'm against it for several reasons ..
One is the critter deserves as humane a harvest as is feasible ..
Two and three are good friends who were mistaken for (1) a moose and (2) a 'boo , at over 500 yards ..
Both are pushing daisies ..
If you can make the shot , go for it , jus be sure of your target ..