OK, it looks like the discussion is now ready for a comment about the Chinese. I was reading in National Geographic about the Chinese criminal justice system. Their system is real interesting. The cops stand around for about two years just watching criminals, without arresting anyone. Then on a given day they arrest about 10-20,000 across the country. The criminals go to court, the provinces have a 95%+ conviction rate. A week after being convicted the criminals, with their elbows tied together, are walked out into a big field by the arresting officer. The officer shoots them behind the ear and the other prisoners clean up the bodies. Every cop is required to execute prisioners as part of their duties. Check fraud is a capitol offense and there are 64 other capitol offenses. No repeat offenders, no over crowding and the women can walk the streets of the biggest cities at night without fear.

Pretty severe, but it works.
Ed

Always cool when the discussion is ready for a comment about the Chinese, Ed. Thanks for that, I have never had any particular desire to see China by the way and now I know why I haven't.... I could see where that sort of activity would discourage crime, the 95% conviction rate makes a big difference, no deal cutting and plea bargaining!

Great! When do we start that here? Im all for it, Some low life scum bag stole my youngests Bicycle last week. He needs his F@#$ing hands cut OFF!

tracker wrote:

I could see where that sort of activity would discourage crime, the 95% conviction rate makes a big difference, no deal cutting and plea bargaining!

Gidday Tracks. I wonder at the conviction rate in China.....are those convicted actually guilty or is it just a way to control the criminal elements?

I like the idea of "no deal cutting and plea bargaining". The biggest problem I see today with the Judicial System is the Legal System. Slowly, but so very surely the legal system is consuming the judicial system and is in fact taking over. Bottom feeders...oops, sorry, Lawyers and Barristers... are using any and every method they can find to get their client off charges....even if they are guilty!!! To hell with the victims of crime....they (the defence lawyers etc) don't get any money or prestige from them.

We have had two incidents here in Australia in the past couple of months that come to mind.

The first involves a 28 year old murderer....yep a MURDERER ....who had his charge...read crime...reduced from Murder to Unlawful Killing by using a defence of Provocation. He said that his 16 year old girlfriend provoked him into bashing her to death with a steering lock by saying she wanted to end their relationship and see another guy her own age. He gets free from jail in under 8 years!!! Where is the justice for the victim in this case?

We had a shooting 3 nights ago about 500 metres from where I live. A career criminal shot and killed a young Policeman (an ex soldier and a damn nice guy) when they "visited" his address to execute a warrant for his arrest for failing to appear in Court. The crim then topped himself. There are those that are sorry that the Swat Team didn't get the chance to take him out....that way the Police would have got some justice.

The crims in some parts of Australia have no respect for authority because of the Touchy Feely, Warm and Fuzzy Tree Hugging methods that are forced upon them by the Civil Righters and Bleeding Hearts. The crims know that the Police are not going to be tough with them because procedures say they are to be handled with "kid gloves" so as to not offend anybody!! There must be a middle ground between Joe Apraio's methods and the needs of the Bleeding Hearts so that those that deserve to be treated "firmly" are given the appropriate "treatment".

crackshot wrote:

Jail's do not rehabilitate criminals, It teaches them new and improved ways to do bad things to good people. Get rid of jails and kill off the bad people.

I agree with the first part of the statement above....crims do "train" in jail to become better and more efficient crims. I don't, however, believe that the second part of the statement is right. Too many innocents (as in China) would most likely be executed. Big crims would simply use fall guys to avoid the "punishment".



Cheers, Vince

Never fell asleep during a hockey game tracker.

Never would go camping with a soccer player either, and I SURE wouldn't go to sleep around him if I did.

Eric

Eric, ya snuck up on me ya bugger. Was just about to log off.

Now now, don't pick on our wogball....oops, soccer.....players, they can't help it. I've seen some very nice soccer Mums out there.

We don't play a lot of soccer in Australia, mainly Rugby League, Rugby Union and Australian Rules.

Cheers, Vince

personally I think what the sheriff in Arizona is doing is a good thing.
I dont agree that those inmates will all become liberals.
I think from the people and young people I have known that have been through our penal system it has become a status symbol for them. I have repeatedly heard them say "yea now I'll be thought of as tough since I was in jail". A few of my sons' friends have had that experience.
Coming from a family of Master Sergeants, MPs, Cops, Sheriffs, & a Chief of police grandfather. I personally think Sheriff Joe is doing a good thing.
wish him the best

I think the biggest problems are the Lawyers!

Crackshot wrote:

Great! When do we start that here? Im all for it, Some low life scum bag stole my youngests Bicycle last week. He needs his F@#$ing hands cut OFF!

Interesting post. Let's say we catch the offender, are you willing to do the cutting Crackshot?

What if the offender was:

1. A 5 year old girl
2. A 15 year old male with five similar thefts
3. A policeman that needed the bike to apprehend a crook
4. Your next door neighbor
5. Your brother

We have judicial systems to take into account the history and the circumstances in which a crime takes place. It is far from perfect, but, I prefer it to the Chinese solution.

Handloader wrote:

We have judicial systems to take into account the history and the circumstances in which a crime takes place. It is far from perfect, but, I prefer it to the Chinese solution.

I think part of the problem is that in all of these cases we hear about, the judicial system seems to take in some pretty wrong circumstances. I agree with Vince about the...what if an innocent person is convicted. That's why I oppose capital and extreme corporeal punishments, the state can and certainly does with an alarming regularity, make mistakes. I also believe there are situations where even an extreme crime (ie homicide) may have been justified, but once found "guilty" the judge is bound by precedent in the sentencing. Very few sitting judges in North America have the cojones to set new precedents. Once again, I don't have the answer, I'm just pointing out that there doesn't seem to be any answers in the system. I know of a reservation in Manitoba that uses justice circles, the details of which are too long to type in here, with sexual offenders in their community. They have a less than 1% recidivism rate, for a crime that in society at large has something like a 98% recidivism rate, but it begs the question, would their system work on a larger population and geographical scale? I have my doubts.

I certainly agree with the comment that a big part of the problem is too d### many lawyers and as far as Sheriff Joe goes, I do applaud his guts, because how many of those criminals are laying around in the heat in their pink undies thinking of the day they get out and get re-armed? I'm pretty sure they aren't the kinds of guys who would face the man down one-on-one on the street. I can guarantee plenty of them have already thought of it.

ElyBoy wrote:

Never fell asleep during a hockey game tracker. Never would go camping with a soccer player either, and I SURE wouldn't go to sleep around him if I did. Eric

I've passed out in a few, but that was back in the day

The biggest mistakes made by the U. S. judicial system to date is letting a rapist go free after repeated molesting and raping a 7 year old girl just because a shrink said he needed an interpeter when, in truth, he was educated in the U. S. and his native country was founded by American slaves and their language was and is English. The few mistaken carserations and carried out death sentenses do not compare...

First off Handloader my freind, If a 5 year old girl was stealing , her parents need their a$$es kicked! And if it was a 15 year old kid, or any of the other people mentioned by you, YES! I would do the cutting. Thieves, rapests, murderers.ect,ect. are a scourge and need to be scuttled from society or taught a very cruel & harsh lesson.
I have never stole, or commited a crime of any nature against another person or persons. and expect the same in return.

Personally, I don't want to be cutting off any body parts so....I'll just let that one slide. I think we've had a lot of this discussion before too, actually, but....I agree that the few mistaken incarcerations "don't compare". They are different subjects to me, totally. I agree wholeheartedly with Bushy about the b.s involved in the case he mentioned, and again, the odds of those people being multiple offenders are staggering, (unfortunately too many cases that could be used as examples) but what I'm saying is...we need to know absolutely that the person is guilty, then by all means punish away. An innocent person getting the death sentence makes the state a murderer and the state represents anyone who participates in the legal and political functions of that state (taxpayers and voters). That's how a republic and a democracy is supposed to work, anyway. Make the representatives/employees of the state do their jobs better in both situations my friends, whatever punishment seems fit.

I agree! I dont want to indescrimantely chop off parts unless there is very ample proof of the crime being commited by the person accused.
And maybe choping off of limbs is abit over doing it. But something needs to be done other than send them to a Hotel prison, were they will be trained to be alot worse criminals than when they went in to the Prison/Hotel.
The prisoners in this country have better health care than 99% of the working class people.