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Signs of a loose primer pocket?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:03 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

I typically get my moneys worth and make efforts not to shorten case life....

I tend to load in batches of 100 and keep those lots seperated and not mix.

The first split neck or loose primer sends the batch to the recycle bucket and more is sourced.

Brass is still cheap, compared to the alternative(s)...............
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

twofifty...I don't keep shooting a case with a loose or warn primer pocket. You keep missing this point. If I have seated a primer into a pocket that I deem as out of tolerence it is relegated to the range for one firing then tossed to scrap. The reason I don't use it for field work is that I don't want the primer coming out in the magazine when I fire the chambered round. At the range I load one at a time. Told you...I'm cheap. If I punch the primer out I may not be able to use it again. And the other issue...If the round is chambered the primer will have little effect or will not back out. If it's that loose that they would leak when fired they would probably fall out at the loading bench and/or cause Pumpkinslinger's problem. As far as leaking past the primer when fired. That is usually cause by an over pressure loading. They all back out to some extent when fired hence the flattened pimers you see with the moderate to hotter loadings, but are slamed back in when they meet the breech face flattening the primer. If the primer is so loose as to fall out...NO it isn't used. As pumpkinslinger experienced. I also tend to seat my primers rather firmly which spreads them in the pocket. It also "arms" them Those with loose primers are marked with a black Sharpy and placed in a range box. If I have (and I stated this before) 5% loose, damaged or split cases in a set the whole set is scrapped. That's one to two cases in 20 for rifle and three to four cases in 50 for handgun. So, in retrospect a lot of what we are discussing here is kinda mote...The number of bad cases is rather small that causes me to disgard a set. I have had no problems with the above Quality Control. It works for me, but you have to decide what your Quality Control will be for you.

Pumpkinslinger...Yup... Proving a point...Where does all that pressure go when you seat a bullet. Does it stay pressurized or slowly leak out past the primer or bullet. I have spent seconds in great thought over this... Very Happy

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Bushmaster, maybe I should calculate that...

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Very Happy Make sure you document that with lots of photos and written details. Just gotta see the pressure sensing equipment... Very Happy

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shadowdrak
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Bushmaster, if I were to get a Lee Auto Prime II, do I need to get the ram prime as well? When seating primers with the Lee, what's the best stroke method for it? It sounds like a few people had different methods of using them.
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Prime 'em fast and hard!
if they don't go "BANG" then you done good! Smash
Nuts No, I'm nuts - don't do that!

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Shadowdrak...Lee Auto Prime II comes with the flip tray, two feed tubes for large and small primers (square), the die, two pushrods for large and small primers, one main pushrod and a spring for the pushrods. All you have to do is come up with a bench mounted press. I use a single stage for this, but it can be mounted on any turret and possibly progressives, but not sure on that. You must provide the shell holders and they come with the die sets. Or you can purchase RCBS shell holders as they are the same as Lee. Another words you don't need special shell holders for the Auto Prime II unlike the hand held priming systems...

PaulS...What in blazes you on...What ever it is it must be good... Very Happy

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Actually Bushmaster I am off it now. For the last three years I have been on Methadone for my back and I tapered myself off of it so I couls get my life back. Mind you my back still hurts... good days and bad days..... but at least I can smile and live my life again. Today has been a really bad day but I had two good ones before it so I am fine. Three years ago I was rearended at a stoplight - the impact ruptured two discs and fractured one vertabra. I am limited to lifting no more than 10 pounds (what my '06 weighs) and have gotten up to walking 2 miles without stopping (most of the time) I am a fighter and I expect to get back to normal no matter how long it takes. I haven't had any Methadone for over two weeks and no withdrawal symptoms. I tell my doctor tomorrow.....

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

OUTSTANDING!!! Keep us posted..As I said before. We hate not hearing from you from time to time...

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
OUTSTANDING!!! Keep us posted..As I said before. We hate not hearing from you from time to time...

PaulS, I support support Bushy's comment wholeheartedly mate.

I know what you are going through as I too have a back problem that I have lived with for near on 30 years. Hang in there mate and always look on the positive side of things. Remember....Pain can't be measured so it doesn't exist....and Pain is just weakness leaving the body. Very Happy Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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280shooter
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

I used to load the primers on a single stage press, what a lot of work,I idnt have them tubes where you pick them off the tray and all that,I handled every primer.put it in the cup. pull the handle while the case is in the shell holder.last year i broke down and bought the new Rcbs primer tool that uses the strips,and the strip loader,Thats so nice to use that tool too.I like how you feel the primmer being seated in the case,You can seat primers so easy,lots of less effort,And I used Winchester primers. CCIs,REmington.With no problems.
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Thanks Bushy and Vince,
Your support means a lot. The way I look at it is that it isn't often as bad as my migraines used to be so I am able to cope. I think most people don't have a clue what they can tolerate - if they have to.
As for not posting a lot, well I am president of a non-profit corp, director of a "Not-for-Profit" Association of teachers and have a church with a small congregation to support. I also have a wife who supports me with every ounce of her being. She works full time in our home and church. I have it good! Just don't always have time with fundraisers, meetings, writing services and counselling couples. I also work on my guns and rebuild performance transmissions occasionally. I am building a set of hi-tech rocket launchers for my grand kids right now. They want to try model rocketry so I support them.

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Paul
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NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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twofifty
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

I've pasted-in a qualitative opinion from another forum which I found useful:

I have tested this quite a bit in my wildcats and more then anything in my 338 AM where the brass quality has declined a bit.

Its common to get spooked when you seat a primer and it seats with little pressure but I to asked is this really a problem.

My standard original load would loosen primer pockets up within 2 firings, noticably loosened. So I dropped the load back a bit for these cases, only 50 fps or so off the original velocity level.

Primer pockets would loosen up around 3-4 firings but they would still hold a primer. I continued firing the cases with this same load up to 6-7 firings and while the primer pockets were what would be considered very loose, there was still no gas leakage. I stopped at 7 firings as this is totally acceptable to me in this chambering, in fact 5 firings is what I was looking to attain.

In my opinion, if you are not seeing any gas leakage, your cases are still usable. For how long depends on the load and the brass. Many cases will expand on the first couple firings and then seem to stablize for several firings after that as far as primer pocket fit.

If your using loads that are leaving heavy ejector rings on your case heads, your pushing pressures pretty hard and your cases will not last as long so keep that in mind.

If your using a load within the specs of the cartridge your shooting, as long as the case is holding the primer with enough force that it can not move and you are not getting any gas leakage, go ahead and use them.

You can often see minute gas leakage if you take a bright light and look at the side walls of the primer pocket. If they appear matte finished at all, there is some gas getting around the primer cup lip. at times, this will only extend half way up the wall where it is then sealed off by the expanded primer cup. If the primer pocket wall is "matted" all the way up, your getting some gas leakage and generally you will see this on your bolt face.

Over time carbon will build up around your firing pin hole at best and at times you will get actual erosion in a ring around the firing pin on the bolt face. If your seeing this in any way, get new brass!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Interesting...Thanks Twofifty...Shores up my findings too. That is one of the advantages of having the Lee Auto Prime II as you can apply a bit more pressure when seating the primer to cause it to spread out in the primer pocket...I do relegate that set of cases with the loose primer pockets to the range only and not to the field...

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twofifty
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Bushy, I still don't get why the distinction between the range and the field, other than the time difference in making it into emerg. ;-)

Seriously though, it seems like I might have been throwing away perfectly good brass.
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