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357 Maximum - new load workup
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Flint54
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Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 389
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

Cool I went to AA1680 in my 357 Max loads and haven't been disappointed in any way. Appears to be much more consistant from shot to shot and as you stated higher velocity with lower pressure. Only have one WARNING for loading the 357 Maximum, "Due to the higher pressures this round develops use ONLY SMALL RIFLE PRIMERS for loading!" Small Pistol Primers do not have the cup stregnth to contain the pressure developed by this cartridge. Cool
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PaulS
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Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 3546
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

Flint,

That's good advice! I have never tried anything but small rifle primers in mine. I did some reading on the round before I invested in it and It made sense to use the rifle primers just like the books say. I never had any problems igniting cartridges so I never considered using SR magnum primers. I think that would add preesure real fast to most loads so I just follow the recipe.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Flint54
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

You got it!!
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SwampFox
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Location: Destin, Florida

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

Paul S,
You are about to find a real pleasure in that 357 Super Mag (Max). I stiil call it that, in deference to Elgin Gates, who designed and developed the cartridge. My little gun shoots great and drops deer like a lightning bolt.

My avitar is a 357 SM in a Martini Cadet. One of two guns I built on a Cadet action. I think both guns are in my photo alblum.

Dead Cartridge, yeh right, if you are an idiot and do not listen to the inventor, like Remington and Ruger did not do. Every single person that I have ever talked to, that has actually used this cartridge, properly loaded with a heavy bullet, for hunting, swears by the round, period. In a single shot or carbine with a 180 or 200 it is just deadly and a fantastic round for kids or a lady.

I can send you the data on H-110 for the 180 Hornady Spire Point rifle bullet and the 200 Remington RN by a PM if you wish. The 180 works as a better trade, capacity, velocity, energy. I think you will run out of case capacity with the 1680, before you get to the velocity delivered by the H-110.

I use Federal 205m primers in my handguns and carbines.
Ed

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

Well, I got my 357 magnum ammo fixed (had to pull all the bullets, powder and resize and reload - Thats what I get for taking for granted that I had fired it in my pistol when it was fired in my brother's gun. Oh well with that job out of the way I will be putting together the loads for 1680 and doing some testing over the next three or four weeks. I should end up with a lot of good information to share.
SwampFox,
I have data for the H110 - that is what I have been using up to now. This is an experiment in a powder that is supposed to be "perfect" for the 357 Maximum. I guess we will soon see if it is the ideal powder for the Maxxy!

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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squirrelbait
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Joined: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Nottingham, NH

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

Swampfox, have you tried Hodgdon Lil-gun yet?
Seems like it could be perfect for this round.
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

I loaded some rounds today up to 26.0 grains of AA1680 with the Hornady 180 spire points and found that I still have airspace in the case. The load is equivalent to where it is compressed with the Speer bullet at a grain below the maximum compressed charge of 27.0. I will not begin to compress my charge at 27.0 grains.
This load should, acording to my software be giving me 1830 fps - the cronograph will tell - after I get an accurate load first. My hottest H110 load only gave me 1845 and it was all over the target - just a tad too hot for my gun at the maximum loading. The maximum load of 27.0 should get me to nearly 1900 fps I don't think it will be a compressed load with the Hornady bullet. I am just going to have to work it up and see what I get when I get there. I have the beginning, and two mid-pressure loads on my way so we wil see if I get any good groups from them. (I actually expect my best groups with about 26.2 to 26.5 grains) It's always an adventure.
Paul

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Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Handloader
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Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

PaulS: I'm enjoying your reports and look forward to the next installment. In re-reading some of your posts my eyesight has failed to find what firearm you are using (I failed to read the fine print on the marriage contract as well, so there you go). So . . .

What firearm? and, if you would, how are you determining pressures?

Thanks
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:42 am    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

Handloader,

I am working the loads up in my 14" Contender. I won't be exceeding the maximum listed loads in the Speer manual so the pressures are being left to the experts. I am using a different bullet which could change the pressure up or down by about 2000 PSI but I have more powder space (enough space equal to at least three grains of AA1680) so the pressure should be reduced from that which was present when the Speer bullet was used.
I am working my loads up from the minimum listed load to the maximum listed load but I will stop when I find an accurate load or when I reach the maximum listed load. I just don't exceed published data because there is no reliable way to measure pressure in a firearm. If I run into signs of excessive pressure before I reach 27 grains I will reduce it 5% from when the first signs of excessive pressure are found and then call that the maximum pressure for that gun. I have a 357 Maximum carbine that can take considerably more pressure but I plan on using the same load in both if it is accurate in them both. The load that I have for the Speer bullet and H110 is accurate in both (the rifle is where it really shines) so I expect the same with this load. Expecting may be more than I get but only testing will tell.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Handloader
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Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

Alright PaulS! I look forward to reading about your results.
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squirrelbait
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Joined: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Nottingham, NH

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

Ok, PaulS, hows the testing going. MY curiousity has gotten the best of me. I am thinking of getting a TC Encore in the MAX. With 24 inches of barrel I think it would be an incredible round.
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PaulS
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Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 3546
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: 357 Maximum - new load workup Reply with quote

Well I am not getting good groups yet - I have gone from 25 to 26.4 and the best group I have gotten so far is 1.0" group. If I can't cut that in half before I reach the maximum load I may have to throw this can of powder out and go back to H110.
I haven't taken any chronograph shots yet and I don't plan to unless I get good groups. I really expected to find a "magic group" by 26.4 to 26.6 and in two grain jumps in the load starting at 25.0 I have gotten:
2.5, 2.0, 2.25, 2.0, 1.5, 1.75, 1.5, 1.0, 1.25
I have two more loads to go and if nothing shows then i go down in .2 grain charges starting with 26.9 until I find a load that will work. If I don't find a good load I can try different primers but I have never seen much of a change with this cartridge from a primer change. I can always try the H110 that I am used to using with the Speer bullet. I keep thinking that this is a better bullet to use than the Speer but that may be wishful thinking. When I find that load I will post it and then i get to test it in all the other ways.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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