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Why a Premium bullet?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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popgun
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Quote::
I was using the 130 grain Game King and shot a small whitetail doe that probably weighed 70 pounds in the shoulder and was puzzled when she turned and ran. After a long tracking job and a little bit of luck I found her about 300 yards away. After skinning her I discovered that the bullet blew apart in the muscle of her shoulder, didn't even hit bone, and only a small fragment entered the lungs. The shoulder looked like a grenade hit it. In this caliber I think this bullet should be limited to nothing bigger than coyotes.

I may be covering information you already know. You didn't say what range you made your shot but the Game Kings are a long range thin jacketed bullet made to open up at lower velocity at longer range.

Quote::
Quote from Sierra website: GameKing® bullets are designed for hunting at long range, where their extra margin of performance can make the critical difference. GameKing® bullets feature a boat tail design to bring hunters the ballistic advantage of match bullets.

If they are used at closer ranges they do blow up at higher velocity. They are not a good selection for ranges 200 and under, some recomend 300 and over.

Those shorter ranges call for the use of Sierra Pro-Hunter bullets that have heavier jacket construction.

Quote::
Quote from Sierra website: The traditional, flat base design of the Pro-Hunter® has been skillfully blended with Sierra's world-famous accuracy. Our custom-tapered Pro-Hunter® jacket design helps assure maximum expansion, optimum weight retention and deep penetration for game-stopping, one-shot performance.

As you can see from the quotes from the website, Sierra falls a little short on the information you need for selecting the right bullet for the job. In both cases you have to read between the lines to see what they are trying to say. Somewhere they need to add thin jacket, long range, Game King. Heavy jacket, short range, Pro-hunter.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

And I have had just the opposit problem with Gamekings in that they tend to go through and through without expanding at close range. found that by slowing the Gameking down a bit it does better at close range. Took a forked horn at 80 yards and the deer had a small hole in and a fist size hole out. Now that bullet opened up...

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POP!!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

DallanC wrote:
POP!! wrote:
I trust "just about" every bullet out there except Sierra. I only trust them on Prairie dogs and paper. That is it!

BUT! If you are hunting Paper Prairie Dogs they are exceptional. Very Happy

Roger that!

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POP!!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

roklok wrote:
I believe the lighter the caliber/cartridge for the game being hunted the more important the quality of the bullet.For deer with the 243 Win I use Nosler partitions.I had very good success and some dramatic kills with the Sierra Gameking 225 grain in my 35 Whelen so I figured it would be a decent deer bullet in my 270.Wrong! I was using the 130 grain Gameking and shot a small whitetail doe that probably weighed 70 pounds in the shoulder and was puzzled when she turned and ran.After a long tracking job and a little bit of luck I found her about 300 yards away. After skinning her I discovered that the bullet blew apart in the muscle of her shoulder,didnt even hit bone, and only a small fragment entered the lungs.The shoulder looked like a grenade hit it. In this caliber I think this bullet should be limited to nothing bigger than coyotes.Too soft for big game especially at higher velocitys.I now use Hornaday interlocks in the 270 and have had good success.If I were to take it elk hunting I would use 150 gr Nosler partitions but that aint gonna happen because I have much better elk rifles.

This is why I do not trust them! My experiences mirror yours!

But try to tell that to the nimrods who use Matchkings no less on game!

Man do NOT get me started on that! Mad

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Quote::
But try to tell that to the nimrods who use Matchkings no less on game!

Shocked wtf

Matchkings on game ?? Thumbs Down Bonk

Dimitri
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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Howdy. I have a buddy that was useing noslers bthp match for deer hunting and took two deer with them and I went into whole thing with him about there target bullets designed for accuracy and that performance/expansion is not a major concern in there design. That they may work fine one time and then blow up the next time It's hard to talk someone out of something they have had luck with Rolling Eyes , It's taken me two years but I got him switched to a hunting bullet ( accubond) Very Happy .
Joe

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vandergrift
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

In my 40 years or so of handlonding and hunting, I have never found a so called premium bullet that was any where near as accurate as the standard Sierra, Horandy, and Speer spitzers. I have played with them all over the years, and in many cases went from a half inch group, to a group which would be measured in feet. In one 270 I had cut a 1 hole five shot group with 130 Sierra's, switched to Barnes 120 grains, and could not keep a five shot group on a three foot piece of paper. I have never shot any big game animals but deer and elk. However I have never needed a second shot. I will stay with the standards, simply because they work, and I can light a match at 100 yards with one.
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roklok
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Its true that the gamekings are designed for longer range use,the doe that I talked about was less than 100 yards away.But how many hunters out there know for sure they are not going to be taking shots under 200-300 yards? A bullet that blows up at close range is useless to me,there are plenty of others designed for long range work that have the structural integrity not to fly apart at closer ranges.
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

One of the worst bullet performances i've ever seen was out of my 7STW using 160grn Federal Premium bullets... loaded with sierra GameKings. Hey its premium ammo its gotta be good right? Well the cow elk did die... from shock alone but the bullet absolutely exploded on her shoulder (she took a step just as I shot) with few fragments even entering vitals. A partition or better constructed bullet definitely would have preformed better. I now shoot Rem Safari Grade ammo using the Swift A-Frame bullets and have been happy with accuracy and preformance.


-DallanC
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Years ago when I was working up a load for my, then new 25-06, I loaded some sierra 90 gr hollow points to experiment with. Coyotes etc (varmints). Well deer season seemed to come early that year and that was all I had loaded. They were very accurate, so I thought what the he**. I shot a nice big Muley buck at 150 yards, on the run, and I could see in my scope when I fired, that his shoulder turned red. Shocked He stopped and just stood there and seemed to shiver a bit. I knew I had hit him so I shot him again just behind the shoulder. He went down and I had to finish him when I got up to him. That's when I realized what had happened with the first shot. Shocked The first bullet had exploded when it hit hair. wtf The hide was blown off the shoulder and the bullet hadn't penetrated much past that. After skinning etc, I went home and pulled all the 90 sierra bullets I had loaded. I then loaded Hornadys and have never had anything like that happen. I still load nothing but Hornadys in my 25-06 and for what I use it for (mule deer and whitetail) they work great. Smile After all, it is a deer to varmint cartridge, not meant for Elk, Moose etc.
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POP!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Quote::
But try to tell that to the nimrods who use Matchkings no less on game!

Shocked wtf

Matchkings on game ?? Thumbs Down Bonk

Dimitri
YUP!
longrangehunting.com/u...ge=0#94486

read and throw up! Mad

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

POP,

Sorry couldnt read past the first page or so. Mad

Quote::
My personal experience has been that for the many many hundreds of deer I've shot with the SMK they work fine.
And thats from a admin in that forum. Shocked I'm not joining that site. Mad

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POP!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

YUP. Killing elk with Matchkings at 900 + yards....criminal in my eyes.

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Flint54
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:38 am    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Rant As a Hunter I have an Ethical Responsibility toward the game animal that I am attempting to harvest. I have the responsibility to harvest this animal in the most humane way as possible. This to me means that I have to use a bullet that is designed for the job at hand, place my shot as accurately as humanly possible to dispatch the animal in the quickest way without causing the animal any undue suffering. I will not shoot at extreme distances due to the number of variables that can be encountered, this means that I will not shootmuch over 350 yards no matter what rifle or cartridge I am using, THIS IS MY PERSONAL LIMIT ON GAME ANIMALS. I don't feel comfortable shooting any further on a game animal. I can shoot very well at longer distances but I feel that there is too much at stake and I have too much respect for my quarry to possibly wound it and loose it. JMHO! Add to this the question of using Match Bullets on game? NO WAY, they are accurate but they are designed for accuracy, one of the main design features of a match bullet is the center of gravity falls toward the base of the bullet. This action inherently causes a bullet to yaw and tumble on striking tissue, Military Ammunition is actually designed in this way. Match bullets "MAY" expand but will more than likely yaw and break up causing shallow but distructive wounds, they are not reliable for penetration that is very important on game. Rant
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POP!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Flint54 wrote:
:rant: As a Hunter I have an Ethical Responsibility toward the game animal that I am attempting to harvest. I have the responsibility to harvest this animal in the most humane way as possible. This to me means that I have to use a bullet that is designed for the job at hand, place my shot as accurately as humanly possible to dispatch the animal in the quickest way without causing the animal any undue suffering. I will not shoot at extreme distances due to the number of variables that can be encountered, this means that I will not shootmuch over 350 yards no matter what rifle or cartridge I am using, THIS IS MY PERSONAL LIMIT ON GAME ANIMALS. I don't feel comfortable shooting any further on a game animal. I can shoot very well at longer distances but I feel that there is too much at stake and I have too much respect for my quarry to possibly wound it and loose it. JMHO! Add to this the question of using Match Bullets on game? NO WAY, they are accurate but they are designed for accuracy, one of the main design features of a match bullet is the center of gravity falls toward the base of the bullet. This action inherently causes a bullet to yaw and tumble on striking tissue, Military Ammunition is actually designed in this way. Match bullets "MAY" expand but will more than likely yaw and break up causing shallow but distructive wounds, they are not reliable for penetration that is very important on game. Rant

nicely put!

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