Champ, then just try it and I think you're going to love it. An eye likes to center things and you just don't have to concentrate on a little dot anymore, just making a star (*) out of an (X) and a (+), it even works with old eyes

44marty wrote:

You may also want to try a different bullet. The Hdy A-Max have a great reputation, but I have found better results with the V-Max (this I can't explain, and it baffles me) and even better groups with Sierra bullets. Edit: Have you tried IMR 4064 or IMR 4895 powders?

I choose the Hornady A-max because its a very low drag for a .224 bullet and I plan on shooting 500+ yards. Other bullets aren't even close to that BC in the 75-80gr range that I can stabilize with a 1:8 twist. Cabela's had a sale so I already have a healthy supply.

I will pick up a box of Sierra 80gr bullets this weekend. I have some IMR 4064 on that shelf that I tried from one of your prior suggestions. 4064 just seems like a slow powder with respect to velocity achieved. At max load its 2673 fps compared to Varget at 2869 fps, basically a 200 fps difference. Still I'll give it a try, it certainly had a low std dev when I used it before.

chambered221 wrote:

The 1.5X scope more than likely added to group size !!!

I agree which made the results from my M&P with a 16" barrel and 1.5x Weaver that much more impressive. Why would my new, much more expensive AR with the 4-16x Hawke do so much worse with the same ammo. I know it will come around, just takes time. Got to love the results from the M&P, though!!

chambered, I also use a target like that for my low power scopes. Its so nice to use a 16x scope for load development!

Dawgdad wrote:

Was this barrel cut with the Wylde chamber?

Yes, its the Wylde chamber.


Thanks for all the suggestions! It gives me a focus for my next range session which should be next week of the Thanksgiving break.

Dawgdad, Thanks.....you just gave me some new ideas as to where to look !!!


Aloysius, Already planed on giving it a look at the range !!!


Slim, I think I got a little confused as to what had what on it !!!

Dawgdad, did you break-in your WOA barrel?

I called them today to just see what their recommendations were. They said to just "shoot it" and not bother with any "fancy" bore coatings. I don't use bore coatings but do believe in barrel break-in procedures if not chrome-lined. I shoot single shots until I notice the cooper fouling begin to reduce (took 11 shots on this barrel). Then shoot five 3-shot groups between cooper cleanings, then five 5-shot groups between cleanings. After that I clean as needed. On my Tikka, I go 80+ shots before cleaning. I've shot 600+ rounds through my chrome-lined AR with only a trace of copper.

I currenlty have 28 rounds down the barrel and I still think I'm getting more copper fouling than I should. The last 5-round group took 3 goes at it before it ran copper free. I want this to be a good barrel so plan on sticking with 4- to 5-shot strings until I see it clean up better.

Just wondered what you did to make yours a good shooter.

Just out of curiosity....are you guys using a piston conversion, or direct gas, and what are your thoughts on the piston system.

Suz

Suz, that is a raging debate right now. I use direct gas impengement and have avoided the piston systems. The DGI has been around for 50+ years and the design is mature. Some believe DGI is outdated and piston systems are the future. However, the piston guns cost more, weight more, I haven't seen one shoot as accurately (you have weight on the barrel actuating during the shot), and the many different designs have not proven their reliability yet. I go all year without cleaning my AR, 1000+ rounds. The DGI is designed to go 2500 rounds without cleaning.

yeah me too what he said and for my time as an infantryman zero failures in a well maintained weapon ZERO. Zero in all my experience, no one in my team, my squad, my platoon, my company, nada. let me tell how I feel. oh nevermind you can probably guess.

When I was buying my first AR, I was initially concerned about getting DGI. Then I read a test article on three new S&W M&Ps all with DGI. The tester fired 2500 rounds through all 3 guns. Cleaned them and shot for accuracy. All were grouping under 1 MOA. Then shot 2500 rounds more out of each. 15,000 total rounds with not one stoppage. I went out and bought an M&P the next day. The rifle has been one of my best and is very accurate even with cheap ammo.

Thanks Aloysius for the X sighting idea Ive just got to try that.
now heres a tip for you guys shooting in scrub n trees with a low powered scope mount it so the cross hairs are x not + that way your eye is centered and the trees go the other way.
its a bugger to sight in but graet once it done.

slimjim wrote:

Dawgdad, did you break-in your WOA barrel? I called them today to just see what their recommendations were. They said to just "shoot it" and not bother with any "fancy" bore coatings. Just wondered what you did to make yours a good shooter.

I think i posted earlier that I hit the throat with al ittle JB paste and gave the barrel a few licks while I was in there and...... I took it out and shot 40 rounds through it! Cleaned it saw how easy it cleaned and smiled. Saw how good it shot and smiled more.

Wilson Kriegers Pac Nors all the custom barrels are inspected and checked so much when they are made they are all essentially hand lapped when you get them. Doesnt need much TLC to shoot and clean up well.

Dawgdad wrote:

they are all essentially hand lapped when you get them. Doesnt need much TLC to shoot and clean up well.

Not the one I have nor were they interested in talking to me about my barrel. Think I'll take it over to one of my shooting buds and have him inspect it. Thanks for the info, keep it coming.

Is it the fouling or the accuracy that is the hang up here?

I am sure there are exceptions and I hope yours is not one but every one I know that is shooting these set ups is pleased.

I will shoot 88 rounds in my SR Match barrel in the course of fire and the last 20 shots are at 600 I cannot stop and clean the barrel but it still shoots better than I can. I do not worry too much about fouling unless I start getting shots off call. On big match weekends I will sometimes get almost 200 rounds between a patch and sometimes even longer before a good scrubbing.

Try a few dozen strokes of JB paste. That is all I did to mine.

Dawgdad wrote:

Is it the fouling or the accuracy that is the hang up here?

Its really comes down to accuracy but my concern is the the fouling might be related. Put in a different perspective, there is worry because I do not know what I should expect after the intial results haven't been what I was expecting. My Tikka did not foul this much when new and when my M4 outshoots my new rig I start to worry. I'm taking my time and not rushing because I want this rifle to be a good shooter. I really haven't fired enough rounds through it yet to know what its accuracy potential is.

Your comments are helpful because you are let me know what I should expect. I'm going to reload some more rounds based on yours and Marty's recommendations and print some more groups this week. I'll get some JB paste and use that also.

Thanks again, I really do appreciate it.