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What can I use as filler?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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codybrown
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

I'm reloading some shells for one of my .338's for my girlfriend to shoot. I don't want to load them as hot as the book calls for. What can I use as filler in the case?

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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

Danger Close...!!

Look up AA5744 powder for reduced loads in large capacity cases.

My kid, 12 years old, was a couple of years ago shootin' my 300 RUM/180 grain bullets comfortably....

Adding filler to a bottle neck cartridge is asking for Big Trouble..........
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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

I'll add also...

NEVER go under a minimum published load as excessive pressures can build from that just the same or worse than over charging a load.

AA5744 is DESIGNED to take up the space of larger capacity cartridges yet yield a lower pressure round with less felt recoil...

AVOID fillers in a bottleneck case and AVOID under charging ANY chambering......like it is a matter of Life or Death.

SAVVY...!?!?!?!?!
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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

Do some research.........

Go Here:

Accurate Arms Powders..............
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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

They list AA5744 loads for the 338 Win Mag , 338 RUM, and 338 Laupa....

If you need something else, I'd call 'em and see if they have new data available.

Hope this helps....
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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

Also:

A Good Read.......
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

wildswalker wrote:
NEVER go under a minimum published load as excessive pressures can build from that just the same or worse than over charging a load.

This is very true. Its very dangerous to try unproven "light" loads to reduce recoil. There are various theories out there as to what exactly is happening to cause the absurd pressure spikes, but its proven they do happen.

The two theories I remember that seemed plausable to me are:

A). The powder only fills the case partially, and when fired horizonally, the powder doesnt cover the flash hole entirely so the primer is able to ignite all down the greater surface area of the powder at once. Contrast this with a normal load where the primer only able to ignite the powder near the flashbhole itself, then the rest of the powder is ignited via the overall burn rate.

B). The primer exposed partially and is able to push the bullet forward, into the lands before igniting the powder itself, creating a barrel obstruction situation.


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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

"Reduced" Mouse Loads are not just the only point Dallan...

Filler, which would act to take up the void, in a bottle neck, is Real Bad Mojo as well.

I'll look around and see if I can find a discussion on it.........
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codybrown
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

Well, I will just load them to the smallest load in the book. It will give me 2850fps, as opposed to the normal 3006fps. Thank you for your help Dallan and wildswalker!!

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jeh7mmmag
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

338 Winchester Magum - 200 grain Win. PP bullet, 39.5 grains SR 4759 powder, WLR primer, Winchester case. COL 3.330". MV 2335 fps in 25" test barrel. MAP 54,000 CUP. (Based on the IMR Smokeless Powder Reloader's Guide, April 2004.)

.338 Winchester Magum - 250 grain Speer Grand Slam bullet, 32.0 grains SR 4759 powder, CCI 250 primer, Winchester case. COL 3.300". MV 1856 fps in 24" barrel. (Based on the Speer Reloading Manual No. 13.)

www.chuckhawks.com/red...eloads.htm

Hodgon also has a listing for reduced loads on there site. Very Happy

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jeh7mmmag
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

I don't know what has happened to the Hodgon site lately but I can't pull up the reduced loads. I emailed them asking about the loads and will post reply when I get it. GL

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

jeh7mmmag wrote:
I don't know what has happened to the Hodgon site lately but I can't pull up the reduced loads. I emailed them asking about the loads and will post reply when I get it. GL

Hodgdon went a little lawyer crazy back in around 2002, and went through a ton of their loads and changed them to be "safer". I have a bunch of manuals covering the 7STW that I own, and for a lot of years their loads where pretty consistant when all of a suddenaround 2002 they reduced it down dramatically. Other recient manuals from other mfgs (Barnes, Nosler) show loads more in common with the older hodgdon info... just fyi.


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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

Cody,

As a subsonic lover, I agree that you have to approach reduced loads with great caution.

There are a few way to reduce the velocity and thus recoil.

The main one is simply reducing the amount of powder in the cartridge; however as been pointed out by the wildman and Dallan, they ARE dangerous practice.

Other method is to reduce the ignition time by using FAST burning powder. This creates very short and very high spike of pressure in your chamber. This method is somewhat more dangerous than the previous one and must only be approached with utmost caution.

Next method is to extremely slow down the burning of the powders by using the SLOWEST burning powder. Well, the idea is if you have slow burning, the velocity of the projectile have not yet reach its peak when the projectile leave the barrel, and thus you get slower moving projectile. Its like shooting a rifle caliber on a short barrel pistol, you get only a fraction of the max speed. The drawback is usually this method create A LOT of flash and BANG and recoil when the residual powders burns outside the barrel when it sprays out.


Out of the methods above, the one I most often use is the second one ie, to use fast powder.. But I made sure that all the pressure is well below what my gun can handle. I use calculations and educated guesses until I got one that is workable. This is a log drawn process but for me it worth the effort.

there is a good site to see if you want to learn more about these.
www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
They also use fast powder to reduce load..

If you could give me the weight and barrel length of your gun and projectile weight brand and type and the powder that you use; I could calculate for you the recoil, expected pressure for the load and muzzle velocity for it. The more info you give, the better I could work.

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sagebrushsniper
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

What better excuse tro buy another gun for her to use , come on fellow grab it and run!!!!!!!!!

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? Reply with quote

sagebrushsniper wrote:
What better excuse tro buy another gun for her to use , come on fellow grab it and run!!!!!!!!!

Yep, that's exactly what I would do! I mean why try to make a .243/6mm out of a .338 when there are lots of calibers out there that would work for her? I just makes sense................ Smile I mean ............ I wouldn't expect my wife to shoot my high power .45-70 loads and why would I download them to .30-30 or .35 rem levels when I have a .35 rem she could shoot? Smile I know you're talking about a girlfriend but hey, I'm sure she's worth a new rifle ................ Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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