Reintroduction of Wolves

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

Do you think the reintroduction of wolves is a good or bad thing in general?

-DallanC

shrpshtrjoe · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves

Howdy Dallan. I would think it would depend on the area if they were put in a place where they would create a better balance of wild life than it could be a good thing. If they were put in a area where they served no purpose then they could create a worse balance. I don't know it's a good topic.

Blaine · Member Joined: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 260 Location: Maine

I live in Maine, where they want to reintroduce wolves. We already have enough coyotes to MORE than keep the deer population in "check". For years the biologists and game management people refused to admit that the coyotes were hurting the deer herds (especially in winter when the deer were in they yards). They have finally admitted this after the evidence was irrefutable. Why they now want to further damage the herds they have been trying so hard to build back up is beyond me. Mad

Blaine

coyotehunter_1 · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves

Hey guys,
Have your DNR people contact our good olâ€™ boys at the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency (TWRA). They can tell 'em all about wolves!

Several years ago, TWRA spent a sizeable amount of taxpayers and sportsmenâ€™s dollars re-introducing red wolves into certain wilderness areas of my state. The agency and news media made a big deal of the release program, re-establishing a species that became extinct here many generations ago. Pairs of red wolves were freighted in, examined, fitted with radio tracking collars and set free. FYI progress reports, monitoring their movements, were produced by TWRA and shown on several local TV stations. At first all went fine and dandy but someone forgot to tell the wolves they were supposed to stay in their designated territories and not wander. Within a short time frame most of the predators were many miles away from their point of release. Wolf sightings were reported in several local counties while a few of the creatures even roamed into adjoining states. Within two miles of my parents home and nearly 100 miles from release point, one big male was killed by a car while crossing a hi-way. The story is it was hit while chasing a whitetail deer. One by one our prized wolf population slowly became extinct again. Needless to say the program was deemed a complete failure when the last was found dead.

Personally, I feel re-introduction, back into the wild, of particular types of endangered or threatened animals is good to â€œsome degreeâ€. On the other hand certain critters simply do not co-habitat well with humans.

longwalker · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves

Way back when I was about 15 years old, and living in Pennsylvinia the state had wild dog hunts. The cause of these hunts were two. First a young boy was severely mauled by a pack of dogs in New Jersey, Second hunters and state game wardens had witnessed dogs chasing and killing deer years. Hunts did not start in the eastern part of the state until someones pet was dragged off by a pack of dogs in broad daylight. The state game lands were pretty much opened up to hunting them, and organized hunts (drives) were set up. Problems were quickly diminished.

I think the problem is, certain educated people believe they have all seeing wisdom. Maybe they wrote a book or spent more time in school because they could afford to. Fortunately for them they don't live in the olden days they would like to recreate. They would be the first ones ready to hunt the killer dogs for eating their sheep chickens, calves, dogs or maybe even their children. They forget Walt Disney is make believe.

The point to all this rambling is those that can't understand history are bound to repeat it. Even if they don't agree at the very least they should admit the people that came before were hard working smart people only concerned with making a way for them selves in the world.

Do they really think they are so much smarter?

longwalker

Blaine · Member Joined: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 260 Location: Maine

Coyotehunter,

Your story about the wolves amused me. It brought back to mind a story here in Maine. About 35 years ago, some folks thought we should bring back Caribou to Maine. There hadn't been any here for centuries. They flew in 15 pairs,(as I recall) from Labrador and fitted them with the radio collars and all that. They stayed in the state about 8 months, and all headed back home. It cost the state I don't remember how many $100,000's for this boondoggle. Now they want to do the same thing with wolves. dah..... Rolling Eyes

Blaine

Flint54 · Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 2:21 am Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves

To me I love wildlife and to be able to see it in its natural state is the ultimate. That being stated I firmly believe that there has to be a good reason to reintroduce not only wolves but ANY animal into a supposed natural area. The reintroduction of animals so far has mainly centered around those of a predatory nature. Logic & common sence need to be used in these projects and most of those that I have seen have neither. I've yet seen one to work and for this reason I don't believe that the reintroduction of animals is a sound management policy. Now don't get me wrong, we are talking about mamals not fish, that is a totally diffrent story.

When there are no predators in an ares it is probably due to the fact that they left on their own most of the time as they need vast areas to roam and live within. Predators are nomadic dependent upon the time of the year. So I can see why when they are reintroduced they leave.

Idea

Of course due to the fact that the Republic of Kalifornia loves Mountain Lions maybee we should get a bunch more of them, reintroduce them to many areas of the Republic and let nature take its course! Twisted Evil

coyotehunter_1 · Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves

I have always said I was born a few hundred years too late but then again I probably would have got eaten by a bear.
Some of the TWRA programs here have been a great success, others have not faired as well. Like a farmer, wildlife biologists must plant the seed and see what grows. Over the years, TWRA also transplanted turkey, deer, Russian boar, black bear, elk, beaver, river otter, fishers, coyotes and even rattlesnakes here. Other small mammals, birds, reptiles, fish and crustations have also been on the list. Most were stocked on state owned wildlife management areas or protected private property. The major problem here (like in most areas) is wildlife habitat loss. Many farms and properties that once supported a diversity of wildlife have now been subdivided into postage stamp building lots. Every year we loose more and more prime wildlife habitat to urban development. For wild animals to survive, they are forced to live with man. In the end, they must be able to adapt, some prosper while others become road kill.

Whitetail deer in yard/Nashville, Tn.
Photo By: My good friend, Plumbrich

moose2 · Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves

Personally I like the idea of introducing wolfs. Seems like though, in most cases, they expand their range quite rapidly. Eventually becoming a nuisance to farmers , ranchers, game managers, and outdoors users. which brings about whole new battles on controlling them or getting rid of them. Just don't think the wolf stands much of a chance in the lower 48.
We had a pack of them close to our Elk camp in Idaho several years ago. They had downed a nice Muley buck. It was simply fascinating to watch and listen to them. Just a magnificent animal. Just don't think they'll ever get a warm reception anywheres. Just my thoughts. Sad

grimel · Member Joined: Jan 28, 2005 Posts: 160

coyotehunter_1 wrote:

Needless to say the program was deemed a complete failure when the last was found dead.

Don't tell anyone but CH got the story just a bit wrong. They aren't completely gone in East Tn. Over the weekend my parents took my surgery recoving aunt out looking at deer. They only saw 23 one of which was being stalked by a red wolf.

Then again, the TWRA claims there are no cougar/puma/mountain lions in Tn. TWRA has the opinion if they didn't see it it doesn't exist.

Remember, TWRA is the group that thinks it is bad to hunt deer with a 3.5" Lew Horton Special Edition S&W M29 44 mag, but it's okay to hunt deer with a Phonix Arms Target model 25acp.

The fiedl people are great, the Nashville paper pushers are idiots.

coyotehunter_1 · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves

Grimel,
Thatâ€™s most interesting! The way some of our state agencies workâ€¦I donâ€˜t doubt it one bit. My info came from the TWRA office in Crossville, last year. I asked them for information and current locations of the wolves. As you know the coyotes around here can grow to around 50 pounds or so and often come in several varieties, as far as color. I could see someone (me) mistaking a red for a big coyote. Shocked

The officer I spoke to said none of the red wolves they released survived and there were no current plans on repeating the experiment but that may have changed since then. Just wondering... Did the wolf sighting happen to be in the Cades Cove area of the Smokey Mountains National Park? It was mentioned, at the time, that the feds were considering the release of several pairs there. PM me the location... if you want.

Chet

Mr. C, sorry to get so far off topic... I'll hush up now. Wink

coyotehunter_1 · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves

Getting back on topic....

Mr.C,
Have you seen this yet?

Information regarding the future of wolves in Utah:
www.wildlife.utah.gov/..._plan.html

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

Yes I've followed the wolves story in detail since the introduction.

Initially I thought it could be a good thing if they are managed correctly. Unfortunately, they are NOT being managed correctly. Surprisingly in the age of everyone owning video equiptment, there has been alot of documentation on the "evil" side of a wolves nature. Reciently a video surfaced of a pack killing 20 elk in a frenzy... then leaving all the carcasses to rot. They simply killed for fun. In 2003 there wasnt a documented moose calf survival in the state of Montana, wolves killed nearly all of them. I'll see if I cant dig up the numbers on the decrease in Idaho elk herds due to wolves, its quite alarming.

It is quite clear wolves are dramaticly having major negative impact on wildlife in the areas of reintroduction. Add this to the fact of declining Mule Deer populations, I am quite concerned.

With respect to the Utah Wolf Plan, there is a desire to have wolves in Utah with little to no management. THAT is why the SFW left the meeting, they refused to be apart of a plan where there was little to no management control and they feared for Utahs declining Deer populations.

Having wolves is fine as long as they are tightly controlled. However since reintroduction they have bred like rabbits and are undenighably impacting wildlife populations as they roam freely.

-DallanC

moose2 · Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves

Dallan,
Right on. Not sure there is a way to manage wolfes successfully. When I lived in Idaho, introduction of wolfs was not a popular issue, and it didn't seem like it was very long before they became a nuisance to farmers and ranchers, and they seem to scare the hell out of anyone who's never been in the woods before. Still they are a magnificent animal. I think it will be quite a challenge to successfully manage them to the likes of the public.

grimel · Member Joined: Jan 28, 2005 Posts: 160

coyotehunter_1 wrote:

As you know the coyotes around here can grow to around 50 pounds or so and often come in several varieties, as far as color. I could see someone (me) mistaking a red for a big coyote.

Did the wolf sighting happen to be in the Cades Cove area of the Smokey Mountains National Park?

I questioned him fairly thoroughly. Wink

He is an old man now Razz

that he's 60 I have to really check up on him.

He said it was bigger than my boyhood GSD (about 120lb and 30" at the shoulder). He said it moved like a wolf, not with the head down slinky of a trailing coyote.

They were most likely up near Norris dam. I doubt TWRA caught and collared every pup. It wouldn't suprize me to find one or two breeding pairs running around. It took years to convice TWRA coyotes were running around in force in east Tn.