HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: jdavid65
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 11864

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 52
BOT: 3
Total: 55
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Your Account
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Home
06: News
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Your Account
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
  BOT:
01: Photo Albums
02: Forums
03: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 307
 Pictures: 2316
  · Views: 222827
  · Votes: 1242
  · Comments: 85
 

Support our Advertisers

magnum v regular primers
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
44marty
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 20, 2009
Posts: 767
Location: Cheshire, MA; USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

Warnberg wrote:

Here was my thought and I could be all wet... but I have "heard" in the 204 partially compressed loads preform better with a magnum primer and that the 204 seems to just like partially compressed loads. So I specifically started working with a load that once worked up to max (as long as no over pressure signs where present) would end in a 100% plus fill ratio. My current test loads are with the standard CCI 400 primer. With that in mind I was thinking that a magnum primer would work better to fully ignite all the powder, thus giving better performance...

Am I on the right track?

FYI, I will also be testing the 35gr Berger and the 32gr Hornady V-max

Thanks

Dave

Hi Dave, you are on the right track for sure. My .204 was by far most accurate with slightly compressed loads. The Sierra bullets, especially the 39gr Blitz King had a very slight edge over the Hornady bullets. I did not experiment with standard primers, but used only magnum primers as this is what was recommended in all the reloading manuals (CCI450 and Rem 7 1/2). I tried Varget (not so good results) and several IMR powders. The best results for accuracy were with IMR 3031 powder. IMR 4895 also worked quite well. Interestingly, IMR 4064 gave the most consistent chrono results (least deviation) but not the best accuracy. The only signs I ever had of pressure issues was with 8208XBR powder - cratered primers well below the max listed loads.
The loads my rifle especially liked were both with IMR 3031 powder in Nosler Custom brass (Rem bulk brass also ok):
25.6gr powder with the Sierra 39gr bullet
26.5gr powder with the 32gr bullet
Rem 7 1/2 and CCI 450 primers gave identical accuracy and chrono results.

_________________
_____________________________________

The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling

I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
1895ss
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 2592

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

inthedark wrote:
Hey MacD
I use magum primers in both my 22-250 and 308 loads WHEN I am hunting in 0 degree F or below weather. I have found that using the magum primers in warm weather throws my accuracy right out the window. And as I am in brisk old Saskatchewan, I have had plenty of experience with the benefits of mag primers.

My Brother in-law used to have a .17 rem center fire and I used to load ammo for him. We where out coyote hunting one cold winter day (Southern Sask.) and he was getting a misfire about every other round. A couple days later I worked up a new load for him, using magnum primers, and he never had another misfire. Accuracy was the same.

I use mag primers in my 25-06 but standard primers in all the rest.

_________________
WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE IF YOU HAD 100 FORD TRUCKS And 100 DODGE TRUCKS AND ONE GMC TRUCK?
You would have a junk yard and one good tow truck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
44marty
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 20, 2009
Posts: 767
Location: Cheshire, MA; USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

Oh, forgot to mention this, but 1895's post reminded me. I tried comparing chrono results between rounds frozen (-4* F for three days in the freezer) and rounds at 75* F, using several powders. All were .204 rounds with magnum primers. NO misfires (40 rounds total). There was absolutely no difference at all between frozen and warm rounds using 8208XBR and IMR 4895 powders, and only about 60 to 150 fps difference using IMR 6064 and IMR 3031 powders. Velocity range over all the different loadings was 3650 to 3900 fps, so this was a very small percentage. The 3031 and 4895 loads were slightly compressed, the 6064 had a little room left, and the 8208XBR left lots of airspace.

Edit: The 3031 had the widest spread on the chrono, but still the best results for accuracy.

_________________
_____________________________________

The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling

I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 2537
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

Unless the manual specifies magnum primers use the standard primer. If you want to switch to magnum primers then reduce the load and start working the load up from there.
NOTE: magnum primers and light loads are not necessarily safe. Magnum primers can cause detonation with light loads if too much powder is ignited at once. Powder is supposed to ignite and burn from a single end (or side) to the other end (or side). If it starts burning in more than one place the flame and shock fronts meet causing a rapid rise in pressure that can be well over what a normal burn would produce. This is more likely to happen with slow burning powders and double base powders but it is not limited to those powders.
Please be careful.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SingleShotLover
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 809
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

While I strongly agree that magnum primers should not normally be used in non-magnum cartridges, as with most things there are a few exceptions. One of these is when using ball or spherical powders. These powders usually have a heavier protective coating than "stick" or "short-cut" powders and often give inconsistent ignition, particularly in cold weather. It should be up to the individual to conduct "due diligence" and research the powders with which they are working to see if this is a fit for their application.

And, as always, if making a change to magnum primers, be sure to reduce the load and carefully work up.

_________________
If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!

The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.

SSL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MacD
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 843
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

SingleShotLover wrote:
While I strongly agree that magnum primers should not normally be used in non-magnum cartridges, as with most things there are a few exceptions. One of these is when using ball or spherical powders. These powders usually have a heavier protective coating than "stick" or "short-cut" powders and often give inconsistent ignition, particularly in cold weather. It should be up to the individual to conduct "due diligence" and research the powders with which they are working to see if this is a fit for their application.

And, as always, if making a change to magnum primers, be sure to reduce the load and carefully work up.

Thanks for this. I like to hunt in cold weather and was avoiding those powders as they show temperature sensitivity.

_________________
La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle)
Back to top
View user's profile
Warnberg
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: Nov 28, 2010
Posts: 17
Location: Tampa, Florida

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

would it be safe to assume that the start load would be safe with a magnum primer?

i.e. this is according to berger's load chart for thier bullet

40gr Berger BT (bullet) ruger 204
H414 powder
start load 26.0 gr (safe to use magnum primer starting here)?
Max load 28.8 gr
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2927
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

Warnberg:

If you use a mag primer and start with min recommended load, you'll be ok.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
44marty
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 20, 2009
Posts: 767
Location: Cheshire, MA; USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

Warnberg wrote:
would it be safe to assume that the start load would be safe with a magnum primer?

i.e. this is according to berger's load chart for thier bullet

40gr Berger BT (bullet) ruger 204
H414 powder
start load 26.0 gr (safe to use magnum primer starting here)?
Max load 28.8 gr

Again, Warnberg, you are talking about the .204 - Magnum primers are recommended for the .204 in all the loading manuals I have ever seen (six different manufacturers' manuals). I would hesitate to try standard (non-magnum) primers in .204 cartridges.

_________________
_____________________________________

The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling

I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
HayCreek
Member
Member


Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Central ND

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

Marty -

My Lyman and Hornady manuals say Rem 7 1/2 (not really 'magnum' primers). No mention of magnum primers being recommended for the .204 Ruger. Not to say they can't be used, but I've never found them necessary for accuracy or reliable ignition.
H4895 or IMR8208XBR with Rem 7 1/2 primers produce excellent accuracy and velocity.

On the subject of primers for the .204; don't use CCI 400s. Way too soft a cup for the pressures the .204 develops, except at very light loads.


Last edited by HayCreek on Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3198
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

44marty wrote:
Magnum primers are recommended for the .204 in all the loading manuals I have ever seen (six different manufacturers' manuals)

Are you calling the Federal 205M a magnum primer by chance ???
I see it listed more than any others in the .204
The "M" stands for "Match" not magnum. Federal has confused a lot of re-loaders with this one !!!

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
44marty
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 20, 2009
Posts: 767
Location: Cheshire, MA; USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

The Rem 7 1/2 and Fed 205M are both "match" or "benchrest" primers - Hotter than standard primers. Hornady's manual lists them as magnum primers in their primer comparison table. The Rem 7 1/2 is approximately equivalent to CCI small rifle magnum primers (CCI 450).
I was getting no difference in either velocity or accuracy using Rem 7 1/2 and CCI 450 in my .204 given the same brass, bullets and powder charges.

_________________
_____________________________________

The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling

I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3198
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

I knew that some time ago Federal revamped the rather weak 205M to a hotter primer.......... just didn't know they turned it into a magnum.

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
HayCreek
Member
Member


Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Central ND

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

Marty -

found the chart you were talking about. Yup, they call the Rem 7 1/2 'magnum'. Kinda surprised me, as disagree with that.
Then, I saw the caveat at the bottom which says:

"This chart is not intended as a substitution chart. It does not indicate primer intensity, merely a primer's physical dimensions."

The major physical difference between the standard SR primer and what they call magnum is cup wall thickness. The standard primers run about .020"
where the others run about .025" thick. The purpose being to withstand the higher pressures run by the match and BR loads. This, also follows for use by us shooters who load high pressure varmint cartridges like the .204 Ruger.

If you load to pressures in the 40,000 psi range and above, it's best to leave the standard primers behind.
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2927
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: magnum v regular primers Reply with quote

HayCreek wrote:
If you load to pressures in the 40,000 psi range and above, it's best to leave the standard primers behind.

HayCreek: it's best to leave the standard primers behind.

You may want to re-think this, I re-load a 340 wby mag with no problems at all using a large rifle primer (not magnum) behind 4831 with no problems. My rifle is a mark v 340wby, higher pressures it is but never had a failure in 18 years.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 3 of 6
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.