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the .222 Rem subsonic
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

we hunt small game in the winter. Today hunting season stops for hare. We still have male faisants and ducks till the end of January and doves till the end of February. So the winter is almost gone Smile

But: on 15th of January we have our opening on female and kits of roedeer, open till 15th of March. And on 15th of May: buckseason starts again (till 15th of September).

Here a hunter doesn't get that much time to go out working Smile
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

Aloysius, you got me interested in this one. I've found some components to try the Trail Boss in my .223 Rem 700. It has a 1-in-9" twist so, theoretically, it will stabilize the Speer 70 grain bullet (of which I happen to have about 7-8 left). I'll load those up today and maybe get to shoot them next weekend.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

I did the first shot with the 9,0 grs PCl512 behind this reversed 61,5 grs FMJBT (and a CCI 550 small pistol magnum primer in a Sako case TTL 43,0 mm (=1,693") with OAL 46,0 mm or 1,811"
Shot it in my Baikal single shot. Baikal (and me) still alive, but it was rather noisy and the bullet was shooting high at 25 m.
I think I have to reduce powder charge, so I asked a friend to calculate where I'm supposed to be now and how much I have to take to reach subsonic level.

I already did this job in the past to make a "rabbit-shooter" of my .375 H&H. I never expected to do the same with such an already small caliber, but when the laws change you have to try to be 1 step ahead Smile
And I could also have started with the .22 Hornet, but here we are not allowed to use the Hornet on roedeer, the .222 Rem is the smallest. So in about 2 weeks I'm carrying the .222 Rem, not the .22 Hornet. And when it works with the .222 Rem, it will be very easy to transform into a load for the .22 Hornet.

I wish I could get that Trail Boss....
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
I wish I could get that Trail Boss....

Couldn't you order it from Midway International?

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

Never tried. Maybe in Germany but I'm not sure they will send it to Belgium. We are the danger in our society... we need an importlicense for the smallest screw or spring, for everything that smells a little like a firearm...
On the other hand: that guy in Liège/Luik/Lüttig couldn't get a fireweapon-permit, so he used a FAL and some granades that were stolen from the army. Result: legal gunowners will get punished with some new regulations...
Better look around and see what your second commandement means before it's gone!
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

Ooops, maybe you don't want to order from Midway International. I was just at their website and they have a $500.00 minimum order.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

While waiting for the brass to be get clean...

There seems to be a fair amount of internet discussion about using Trail Boss for subsonic loads in suppressed ARs chambered for 5.56 NATO and some regarding .222s. I just Googled ".222 and Trail Boss".

I filled a .223 case (Hornady) to the bottom of the neck and ended up with 9.0 grains of Trail Boss. The loads I saw online were using 4.0 to 5.7 grains, depending on bullet weight (55 to 77 grains), to stay high subsonic.

According to the Lee manual the .222 has about 90% of the "useful case capacity" of the .223. The fly in the ointment may be the twist rate, limiting the .222 to light bullets. It does look like a .22 Long Rifle equivalent load is doable though.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
Omi, where would you place Trail Boss on the chart of burning rates?

PaulS, are you sure about this H4895? That's one I might have in stock. For a .222 Rem a load for a 60 grs bullet would be minimum 20 grs for and maximum 23,5 grs. Then you would suggest to start with 13-14 grs?
I have better feelings with a faster powder, something like H110...

had to correct this because I took the data for IMR4895, almost the same, but not exactly.
And even my stock let me down: no H4895 anymore (have H110, H414, H335, H4227, H4831, H1000... even still have Clays and HS-6, but H4895 is finished and powder is hard to get nowadays here in Belgium)

14.1grains is a 60% of maximum load - that is the minimum load. Hodgdon is still making it but I can see it might be hard to get in Belgium.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

I loaded some more rounds but I'm hesitating to try them. My friend calculated for me with Quickload:

9 grs PCl 512 behind a 61,5 bullet should give about 617 m/s (2024 fps)
6 grs should give 447 m/s (1467 fps)
4 grs should give subsonic

but that's lower than I was willing to go. I think I need to take another powder.

1 nut could ask more than...
it's not an easy problem to go subsonic with a .222 Rem!
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

Aloy, why would you want a 222 subsonics?

I am not saying that it is a bad move, just curious as to why.

I shoot a lot in subsonics.
My usual powder to use are any of the pistol powders.

The thing you got to remember is using pistol powder, the pressure spikes very high early in the burn.
Your rifle should have thick chamber to ensure safety.

Also, low velocity projectile requires much higher rate of twist than high velocity ones to ensure stability.

You would start on low velocity SUPERSONIC load and SLOWLY creep down to subsonics.

Have fun mate!

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

give the .22 slug pellet a go. I presume you only want this for shooting the likes of rabbits at close range?

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
give the .22 slug pellet a go. I presume you only want this for shooting the likes of rabbits at close range?

I've already tried that, but it's hard to keep the pellet on the right place. They easely enter the case completely.


@ Mr. Wishper: we are not allowed to use rimfire for hunting. So the smallest centerfire (the .22 Hornet) is allowed for fox, rabbit and doves. The smallest caliber for roedeer is the .222 Rem (we need minimum 5.6 mm and minimum 980 J energy at 100 m). So when you go out for roedeer and want to shoot a rabbit (and don't make that much noise + stay on the save side, Belgium is filled up with buildings and cars...)
And: reloading is also a never ending test/challenge...

With a little luck they bring me a bit of H4895, so I'd be able to try that one.
Still have this Trail Boss and this Accurate 5744 on my wishlist.... meanwhile I might try Vithavuori's N110 and Hodgdon's H110.

EDIT: my friend brought the wrong number Sad
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
EDIT: my friend brought the wrong number

Wow, that hasn't happened before! There are just too many powders and numbers to choice from!

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

maybe you could resize without the button so your neck is undersized?

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: the .222 Rem subsonic Reply with quote

Elvis, it was not easy but I have a few rounds loaded with a primer and a .22 Gamo pellet. Used SPmagnum primer and SR primer, both CCI. We'll see what happens.

And I have Trail Boss Smile For your info: 1 x 9 Oz costed me 35 euro. Price is about the same, but the weight is almost half of the normal quantity.
And I did this test to fill a case till the level I think it touches the bullet. Because I put my bullet upside down there is not so much space left. About 7 grs Trail Boss seemed to fill it up. So I loaded some rounds for next weekend, going from 4.0 grs till 6,5 grs Trail Boss behind this 61.5 grs FMJ upside down bullet using CCI's small rifle primers and Remington brass.
By the way: roedeer female and young ones start here next Sunday. So I also made some full loaded rounds with this 61,5 grs FMJ upside down. When they make a decent groupe at 100 m I'll try them also on game.

Have to be carefull: I've been told a story of a dog that died because of "trying" too much and too often... Smile
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