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Suzanne Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2009 Posts: 3323 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: free squibs here |
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Not really shopping for squibs, I've get enough to go around tho....I've been loading some rounds for my antique roller 8x58rDanish and have had a few squibs but don't know why. The powder doesn't fill the case so I'm using some toilet paper to fill. The squib bullets hit the throat and stop and so it seems they're only powered by the primer, the powder is still in the case (or in some instances is scattered in the barrel) and is yellowish in color. It's as if the powder almost got ignited, but not quite. On inspection of the primers they seem to be pretty deeply dented but not pierced. No signs of gas leak around primers. I have (out of 4rns of fire-formed 7.62 and 4rnds of 8x56) one 8x56 primer that is proud of the case and two primers in 7.62 cases that are pushed into the case almost as if I used a pistol primer (but I don't have any pistol primers anyway). The other cases that fired like they're supposed to, don't seem to have any primer problems.
Have a feeling it's the TP filler but can't understand why some and not others have failed. In the mean time I'm collecting squib lead to recast. Any ideas?
Oh and it's a dang fun gun to shoot too. I don't need to wear glasses for distance anymore and now I'm using iron sights, aaahhhh back to nature.
Suz
_________________ May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams. |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9253 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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get some trail boss and load with that..you will drop velocity/recoil etc and KNOW they will go off like they should.
maybe the powder is getting past TP and not getting flame from primer as TP is blocking it??
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5002 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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Which powder?
I think Elvis has the best idea, using Trail Boss. I do think I'd ask Hodgdon before trying this though, just to be safe.
www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Tr...%20R&P.pdf
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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Aloysius Super Member
Joined: Nov 03, 2009 Posts: 2440 Location: B., Belgium
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Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:18 am Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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Suz, many years ago I had a similar problem and I blamed it to oil/fat in the case or primer. Some of them even did go "bang", but as this: first you heard "thick" when you pulled the trigger and then after a few seconds it was folowed by a "bang". I remember it was a .300 WM and it was no fun for the shoulder, the rest of the body and the confidence...
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:24 am Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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I suggest you prime some cases and fire them off without powder or pill. This will tell you ifit is a primer issue.
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Suzanne Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2009 Posts: 3323 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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The powder I'm using is H-4831 @ 41.6grns. I've done the reduced loads stuff, and now I'm trying some regular powder and moderate loads. I'm using the same technique loading them as I did the reduced loads, but now I'm getting some squibs. Sure I'd try out some Trail Boss if I could find some. All I can find is black powder and 50BMG powder, only because they're unpopular. Still think it's the TP, will try out some cotton balls, probably have to buy them by the billions....I could stuff my bra..
Thanks for the PDF Pumpkin, I think I have that somewhere but I'm puttin it on my desktop this time so I can find it. (I share the computer with a dunderhead tho)
Suz
_________________ May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams. |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9253 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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H-4831 is similar/same as AR2213
good stuff in .270 and if you read the gaff on it was originally cannon powder too.
buy some more primers..fresh ones and better still some magnum ones to give you hotter/fiercer flame . why do you still need TP?? in a load like that???
and just a thought..its not a rimmed case?correct???
you could try partial length resize eg dont give resizing die the extra turn when setting it up..that MAY keep shoulder of case SLIGHTLY longer meaning firing pin will hit primer and there is no way case can move forward.
another thought..are primers all being struck well??? are the dents good and deep???
we had a bakail that would missfire the pin would drop but as action lever wasnt completely closed the pin never got to hit primer... quick trip to gunsmith sorted that out.
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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English Mike Super Member
Joined: Jan 08, 2007 Posts: 1709 Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK
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Suzanne Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2009 Posts: 3323 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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Well Elvis I didn't think I'd need to stuff anything on top of the powder, just did it to make sure. Don't think I've tried without ToiPap. I just bought some cotton balls but maybe I'll do without and see what happens. I wouldn't think the powder would be sensitive to a little space, but the more you read, the more you're left guessing. Know what I mean?
Yes they are rimmed cases and I only neck size them after they were fire-formed to get good tension on the bullet.
Primers are deeply indented when fired, matter of fact I'm trying to find out if the firing pin is protruding too much or not. I've put the question to a Swede rifle forum but they haven't given me any replys.
Yeah I like that powder and I've gotten good results with the ammo that does go bang. It's a strong enough load that it's giving me some really nice groups. Thanks Elvis!
Suz
_________________ May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams. |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9253 Location: south island New Zealand
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Dawgdad Super Member
Joined: Feb 08, 2006 Posts: 1065 Location: On the Prairie
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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Corn meal or cream of wheat? Never used it myself and only have read about using this as a filler. Add enough to fill the case up to the neck and compress it slightly with the bullet.
_________________ Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency... |
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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Suz,
Unless that is the only suitable powder you have you might try a faster burning powder. 35 grains of H4895 should be a good minimum reduced load and you don't need any wad. Using a magnum primer may help but it could also cause a detonation because it will push the bullet forward with more force. If your pressures are low enough you might try a pistol primer. I just read an article how the lower blast of the pistol primer actually did a better job of igniting powder charges - it was in a small case (22 Hornet) but the rifle primers were moving the bullet forward causing ignition problems. I don't know if I would hang on to the rifle the first few rounds but it seems a better bet than using a magnum primer which will push the bullet out faster and throw that powder around even more.
_________________ Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
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Suzanne Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2009 Posts: 3323 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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Thanks guys I'll ponder a few things before I do any loading again. I do have other powders I can use and I don't really want to mess with fillers again. I'll just see what I can do with it. Don't know how soon I can get back to it, I'll let you know what happens, when I do.
Suz
_________________ May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams. |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9253 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: free squibs here |
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Paul..Ive been told DO NOT use pistol primers in a rifle load as they arent built to withstand the higher pressures eg you may get popped primers or blow back. as I said if you look in different loading manuals about half recommend using magnum primers with that powder
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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