OV1, I don't have any experience with any of those powders. Most of my loads work best when the case capacity is close to filling the internal volume. One thing with the VLDs is they are sensitive to distance off the lands. Quite often, their sweet spot is only 0.010" to 0.015" from the lands.

English Mike wrote:

I bought some 150gr Barnes TSX

English Mike, I just realized something regarding all the testing I've done with the all-copper bullets. Going to a heavier bullet doens't necessarily buy you an advantage. Take for instance the 110gr TTSX, 130gr TSX/GMX, and your newly purchased 150gr TSX. At 100 yards the 110gr TTSX will expand more and penetrate deeper than the 130gr because it has more energy. 200 yards is probably the transition when the 130gr TSX/GMX will start to out-perform the 110gr TTSX. As the range increases, the 130's advantage will continue to grow because of its velocity advantage. With the 150gr TSX, it has a much lower muzzle velocity and, with its lower BC, will never catch the 130gr, thus never equal it in performance. The 150 may out penetrate it but that is only because it doesn't open up as much and will have limited energy transfer. Plus, how much penetration does one need. My 130gr GMX penetrated 34 inches through an elk at 400 yards with an adequate mushroom.

If you can send me a dozen 150 TSXs, I can prove this.

now THAT is a plurry good point Slim....

slimjim wrote:

English Mike wrote: I bought some 150gr Barnes TSX English Mike, I just realized something regarding all the testing I've done with the all-copper bullets. Going to a heavier bullet doens't necessarily buy you an advantage. Take for instance the 110gr TTSX, 130gr TSX/GMX, and your newly purchased 150gr TSX. At 100 yards the 110gr TTSX will expand more and penetrate deeper than the 130gr because it has more energy. 200 yards is probably the transition when the 130gr TSX/GMX will start to out-perform the 110gr TTSX. As the range increases, the 130's advantage will continue to grow because of its velocity advantage. With the 150gr TSX, it has a much lower muzzle velocity and, with its lower BC, will never catch the 130gr, thus never equal it in performance. The 150 may out penetrate it but that is only because it doesn't open up as much and will have limited energy transfer. Plus, how much penetration does one need. My 130gr GMX penetrated 34 inches through an elk at 400 yards with an adequate mushroom. If you can send me a dozen 150 TSXs, I can prove this.

Pretty much everything I've read since I realised the 150's were less than optimal supports what you say, though the 140gr of the same type do appear to have better results at distance than the 130's.
The 150's are in my stuff in NM, so remind me when I head back over in October & I'll send you some.

English Mike wrote:

the 140gr of the same type do appear to have better results at distance than the 130's.

I agree with you if you are only talking Barnes TSX/TTSX. I load the 140gr TSX for a hunting buddy and have tested them. Recently, Barnes changed the ogive on their 130gr TSX which dropped its 1st place BC status and making the 140gr TSX (0.0404 BC) edging out all the other Barnes bullets in the .277 family. However, I switched to the Hornady 130gr GMX (0.453 BC) which allows it to stay ahead of the 140gr TSX from 100 yards and further.

If Im reading that right the 110grn has MORE energy than either the 140 or the 150grn at all ranges????

Elvis, I went back and double checked the numbers. When you have that much of a velocity advantage, around 500 fps over the 140/150gr, it makes a big difference. 1/2mv2 - velocity is squared to get Energy so its a big deal! There are other aspects of terminal performance than just energy. Have good expansion with a bullet that has a lot of energy and you have a winning combination. During my 100 yards tests, you can really see that the 110gr is on-top regarding expansion and penetration. At 200 yards, the GMX starts to over-take it. The GMX is also more accurate out of my rifle at longer ranges which becomes a key discriminator for me.

for sure...you got to be able to hit it!!!!

bump

ewe, I felt that.

are you sure you arent from Aussie???? feeling ewes is more their thing!!!

clear the decks!!! Incoming!!!

Bumped it AGAIN this time for Radar...should be close enough to 7mm to be relevant.

slimjim wrote:

Elvis, I went back and double checked the numbers. When you have that much of a velocity advantage, around 500 fps over the 140/150gr, it makes a big difference. 1/2mv2 - velocity is squared to get Energy so its a big deal! There are other aspects of terminal performance than just energy. Have good expansion with a bullet that has a lot of energy and you have a winning combination. During my 100 yards tests, you can really see that the 110gr is on-top regarding expansion and penetration. At 200 yards, the GMX starts to over-take it. The GMX is also more accurate out of my rifle at longer ranges which becomes a key discriminator for me.

Great thread. I'm looking into picking up a Sako 75 in .270 and have been looking into components for reloading.

Do you have numbers for your penetration tests?

jimincfalls, here is a chart showing bullet expansion for .270 monolithic bullets (copper). For .270 Win, I prefer the monolithic tipped bullets. In my gun, the Barnes 129 LRX has a slightly faster mv than the Hornady 130 GMX, 3100 vs 3060 fps. You can see that the LRX out expands the GMX out to 500 yards, however, the GMX has very consistent expansion and stays together better than the LRX which can loose a pedal (mass). The GMX is fully expanded by the inside of an elk's nearside ribcage. Both are very accurate in my Tikka T3 Lite. The 130 TSX in this chart is the old design. The latest Barnes 110, 130, and 140 TSX are the newer design and has better expansion charactoristics. I would still go with the GMX or the LRX because they have better BCs and carry their energy better at longer range.

I've tested 140 AccuBonds, 150 AccuBond Long Range, and 150 Interbonds and none of them will hold a candle to expansion, retained weight, and penetration. Be cautious of the 150 ABLR. It is a very soft bullet allowing it to expand down to 1500 fps in a .270. The bad news is it fragments away 2/3 of its mass leaving you with a .223 size bullet for penetration inside of 400 yards. Consistently enough, it will only penetrate as far as a .223 bullet so I won't use it on elk and don't on deer because I don't want that much lead spread through my game - I'm a meat hunter.

one final word, more expansion = less penetration. The GMX will penetrate deeper than the LRX because it has less frontal area. A 130 GMX fired from a .270 will out penetrate a 165 GMX shot from a 300 WM at 500 yards even though it has less kinetic energy because it has a small frontal area. Most bullets penetrate deeper as their kinetic energy decrease because they don't expand as much. Kinetic energy is what determines how much a bullet will expand, not velocity. A 85, 110, and 140 TSX need the same KE to begin to open. The 85 TSX because of its lighter weight has to have 2100 fps. The 110 TSX will open up closer to 1800 fps. I haven't tested the 140 but it should open up at an even lower velocity if it remains stable after impact (thats another story).