HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 207
BOT: 1
Total: 208
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Photo Albums
04: Photo Albums
05: Home
06: Home
07: Forums
08: Photo Albums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Home
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Home
16: Home
17: Photo Albums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Home
22: Forums
23: Articles: Submit New
24: Home
25: Photo Albums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Home
29: Your Account
30: Home
31: Home
32: Forums
33: Photo Albums
34: Photo Albums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Home
41: Forums
42: News
43: Forums
44: Home
45: Forums
46: Home
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Home
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Your Account
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Home
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Home
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Home
68: Home
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Home
72: Forums
73: Home
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Your Account
79: Home
80: Home
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Home
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Your Account
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Home
100: Your Account
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Your Account
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Photo Albums
110: Forums
111: Home
112: Forums
113: Home
114: Forums
115: Photo Albums
116: Forums
117: Photo Albums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Home
125: Forums
126: Photo Albums
127: Forums
128: Home
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Photo Albums
133: Your Account
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Home
138: Your Account
139: Home
140: Home
141: Forums
142: Your Account
143: Forums
144: Home
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Forums
149: Your Account
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Home
153: Forums
154: Your Account
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Your Account
164: Your Account
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Your Account
168: Your Account
169: Home
170: Articles: Topics
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Home
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Photo Albums
179: Home
180: Photo Albums
181: Forums
182: Your Account
183: Home
184: Forums
185: Home
186: Your Account
187: Home
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Home
197: Home
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Home
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Forums
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Reduced Rifle Loads
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

Suzanne wrote:
What would you call it if you have an antique that you want to be careful of and still shoot but with less than full power?

Legendary or Classic! Hodgdon has 3 levels of loads for the 45-70. I studied the Trapdoor (lowest pressure) tables and found Varget had less pressure than Black Powder. Unfortunately, the Varget would leave unburnt sticks/grains in the barrel. I then moved the H4895 which was the second best and still better than BP. I'm getting 1450 fps with a 405gr slug with 41 grains. H4895 is the powder you can use 60% of max case capacity so its easy to step down and stay low pressure with similar performance to legacy.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

H4895= AR 2206h
magnum primer recomended in about 50% of load data...I personally would be wary reducing load too much...some thing about secondary explosion ringing alarm bells in back of old noggin......

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

Elvis, the 60% H4895 is a published as safe by Hodgdon but only for loads that already have H4895 load data.

www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Ho...20load.pdf

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
H4895= AR 2206h
magnum primer recomended in about 50% of load data...I personally would be wary reducing load too much...some thing about secondary explosion ringing alarm bells in back of old noggin......

Elvis,
Is the AR 2206h powder the same powder or is it just a comparable burn rate?
I know the H4895 is an extreme powder (not sensitive to high temps) and that it is a single base but I don't have access to much of the ADI powder information.

The equivalency chart shows AR 2206h equal to both H4895 and IMR 4895 and they are far from the same powders even though the burn rates are similar.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

Gidday Paul...H4895 is AR2206H. ADI Thales make the powder here in Australia and it is, and has been for many years, labelled and marketed as AR2206H. When Hodgdon (and IMR) started buying powder from ADI, it was relabelled according to their nomenclature.

Here’s a list of ADI to Hodgdon Powder equivalents:

AS30N=Clays
AP50N = (No Hodgdon)
AS50N = International
AP70N = Universal
AP100 = (No Hodgdon)
AR2205 = H4227
AR2207 = H4198
AR2219 = H322
Bench Mark1 = (No Hodgdon)
Bench Mark2 = BenchMark AR2206 = (No Hodgdon)
AR2206H = H4895
AR2208 = Varget
AR2209 = H4350
AR2213 = (Discontinued)
AR2213SC = H4831
AR2217 = H1000
AR2225 = Retumbo
AR2218 = H50BMG

This is courtesy of:

Accurate Shooter Daily Bulletin

I am not entirely convinced that this list is complete as I believe Benchmark2 is available as BM2 in the USA...but don't quote me on that.

ADI has another powder that I am using regularly now called Benchmark 8208. From what I have been able to find, this powder IS NOT 8208 XBR.

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

www.hodgdon.com/msds.html

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

Well, Thank you for the list.
I will add it to the list I have of powders that are the same but retail by different names.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
tikkat3
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 800

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

Off thread, who makes CFE223?
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

It's a Hodgdon powder..... It's probably made by ADI !!!

Hodgdon link CFE223

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

CFE works. I cleaned my rifle the other day and didn't have any copper fouling. Hmmm ... then I remembered I had been shooting with CFE.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Azar
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 04, 2010
Posts: 275
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

Actually Chambered, a lot of the newly released Hodgdon powders are not made by ADI due to availability issues (or so I've heard). CFE 223 (and I believe CFE Pistol) are made by General Dynamics in St. Marks, Florida.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

Once again I've made the mistake of forgetting ball and spherical powder is one and the same !!! Embarassed Mad Thus the assumption it was made by ADI.

Azar is correct..... CFE223 is made by St. Marks Powder in Crawfordville Florida who is owned by General Dynamics.

It's not a availability issue though..... St. Marks makes ball powders, ADI makes Extruded powders.

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Azar
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 04, 2010
Posts: 275
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

Oops. Got the names mixed up a bit. Thanks for the clarification.

With regards to availability of ADI powders, this was cited as one of the reasons Hodgdon introduced the new IMR powders out of Canada. These powders are similiar to existing IMR powders but have a decoppering agent and are formulated to be "temperature stable" much like the ADI "extreme" powders are touted to be.

IMR 4166 ~ IMR 4064 + temp. stability + decoppering agent
IMR 4451 ~ IMR 4350 + temp. stability + decoppering agent
IMR 7977 ~ IMR 7828 + temp. stability + decoppering agent

Certainly not the only reason and perhaps not even the primary reason, but one reason that was claimed was due to some difficulty in getting the roughtly equivalent ADI powders in the desired quantity and in a timely manner.

Although the new IMR powders also have the added bonus of a decoppering agent which I believe are lacking in a lot of the ADI powders Hodgdon imports.

Perhaps availability was not cited as one of the reasons for the CFE line, but I have heard it about the IMR powders (and not from my neighbor Bob's cousin's mailman but someone within the firearms industry). Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Reduced Rifle Loads Reply with quote

Omnivision,
The MSDS listing at Hodgdon does not mean the powders are the same.
They list IMR4227 and H4227 and AR2205 as similar powders because the use the same MSDS information but as you know IMR4227 and H4227 are not the same powders. They do have similar burn rates but the pressure curves are completely different and cannot be used interchangably.

I am making a completely accurate list of Identical powders that can use data interchangably and have found reliable data on only 19.
There are four made under the winchester name and the rest are ADI powder equivalents.

I have found that powder burn rate charts are not the answer either so I have to get information from the manufacturers. They are not always willing to supply answers to interchangeable powders.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.