New Moulds for my SKS and Mosin rifles

res45

Picked up a couple new moulds for the SKS and Mosin rifles over the past few weeks. The NOE 155 gr. GC FP I originally bought for my SKS rifle as it is a true .314" dia. mould. I cast up a couple hundred over the weekend to give me something to work with. The bullets actually drop at .315" which is a bonus as I can shoot it in the Mosin's as well.

NOE 155 gr. FN

The other mould I picked up is the Lee .312" 185 gr. RN. I plan on shooting this one in my Mosin rifles as it's a pretty close match to the Lyman 314299 but much cheaper. I cast this bullet for COWW's + 2% Tin and water quenched,final bullet dia measured at .314" after sizing. I going to push these with something along the lines of 28 to 30 grs. of IMR-4895 and about 3/4 grs. of Dacron filler which seem to improve accuracy over not using a filler at all with the slower burning stick powders.

I was a bit hesitant about the Lee mould but after talking with a couple guys that had recently bought one I felt a lot better about the chances it would cast bullets at .314" I really didn't want another mould that would just cast .312" or smaller dia. bullet that I could use in my US 30 cal. rifles as I already have plenty of moulds to cover that base,so I was happy when I put my calipers on the driving band and they measure .314"+ which will give me .001" over what I need.

Part of the Lee 185 gr. mold block.

A few of the Lee 185 gr. bullets I cast up Saturday.

Now to the task of making up a dummy rd. to set my seating depth a few thousands off the leads and check to see if the amount of Dacron filler is enough to take up the space between powder and bullet base.

Here is basically how the assembled rd. will look to check all this out. The photo is form Larry Gibson who recently won the Arizona CBA ie Cast Bullet Assoc. Military rifle match shooting a 1944 Finn M39 using the exact same combination.
Photo courtesy of Larry Gibson

Here is my recently acquired 1933 HEX 91/30 I just refinish an doing some bedding and accuracy improvement on that I will be testing my load out in. She has a really nice bore especially after I gave it a good soaking overnight in Kroil's Oil and brushed and patched it several times and removed all the crud.

slimjim

res45, an interesting project you have there. With the lead bullets, how fast do you load them and what powder do you use? Where do you get your lead?

res45

slimjim wrote:

res45, an interesting project you have there. With the lead bullets, how fast do you load them and what powder do you use? Where do you get your lead?

As to where I get my lead,about 99% of it was/is acquired for free. Living out in the sticks with lots of tire shops around that had lots of free WW's back in the day I got as many as I could get,so I have a pretty good stash. I have also worked in the printing industry for about 40 years so I ran across lots of old Linotype pigs here and there. My brother as well as a few of my friends work in various types of construction so there always running across lead form doing demo work an they know I cast bullets an can supply them with bullet every now and then so they bring me free lead all the time.

As to velocity with this particular project I'm going to be working with IMR-4895 with reduced loads in the 28 to 31 gr. range to see which give the best accuracy. Best results so far from other reports using these loads has been 29 to 30 grs. with velocity in the 1800 to 2K fps. range. I also have a nice M44 that is scoped that I will be shooting the same loads in as well. The throat is not quiet as deep on the M44 as the 91/30 so bullet seating depth will be different for it.

Normally I don't shoot the slower burning powders with cast lead with the exception of H-335 I use in my 170 gr. FN sized to .311" in my 30-30 loads,I can pretty much match factory velocity with excellent accuracy using that powder/bullet combination. My usual loads consist of 16.0 grs. of Alliant 2400 using 150 to 170 gr. cast bullets in rifles like my Sav. 99 in 300 Sav. or the 7.62 x 54r rifles.

In my SKS rifles my Chinese rifle likes 2400 as well,I can use a charge weight as low as 12.5 gr. with a MV of around 1400+fps. and get reliable cycling all day long and drop the brass right at my feet or I can use my Max. charge weight or 14.5 grs. and toss the brass like factory steel case ammo. My Yugo SKS doesn't like 2400 as well,it's mostly spotty during colder weather due to not enough port pressure to cycle the action fully but I solved that problem by just using the starting load of 18.0 grs. of Reloader #7 with bullets up to 160+ grs.an it cycles fine an the bonus is it's an excellent powder for J bullets as well so it can do double duty.

slimjim

res45, sounds like you have plenty of fun ahead of you. I've seen others get good accuracy and mild velocities with Trail Boss using lead bullets. My experience with copper jacketed bullets and TB was all over the map but velocity variation was minimal with the lead bullets. I use H4895 for .45-70 405 lead bullets and light loading the my .270.

Vince

If you are looking at reduced velocity loads with next to no recoil, TB is a good powder...however, I found I got better accuracy and more consistent velocities in my Mod 94 30.30 with cast loads using Alliant PROMO powder.

I've mentioned it in another thread, but Modern Reloading Second Edition by Richard Lee is a goldmine of knowledge where development of cast loads is concerned. My hunting buddy and I have even found that varying the hardness of the lead alloy and subsequent 'adjustment' of the powder charge per LEE's book has rewarded us with much better accuracy with cast bullets. Only thing we had to buy to assist was a hardness tester which wasn't expensive at all.

gelandangan

You can estimate lead hardness by scratching with pencil.
if it scratches then the lead is softer, it it glides then the lead is harder
6B = 5 BHN
5B = 8 BHN
4B = 10 BHN
3B = 12 BHN
2B = 14
B = 16
HB = 17
There ends the extend of my trial.

res45

slimjim,I know lots of people use TB but I never had much use for it as I can pretty much cover any reduced loads I need with Alliant 2400,Red Dot or Bullseye. I shoot lots of subsonic as well as mid-range velocity loads using those three powders.

Vince,I've seen PROMO around here in the LGS's but haven't purchased any as of yet. I still have a good supply of Red Dot. From what I've read on the Alliant site you can use Red Dot load data charge weights with PROMO as it's suppose to be the same burn rate minus the red flakes.

gelandangan.several years ago I broke down a bought myself a Lee hardness tester,not sure why I guess I just wanted to be sure of my alloys final BHN. For years I just made a best guess estimate of what they were since I was pretty sure of all the different alloys or pure lead I was working with. Needless to say I was within a BHN or two of what my eliminates were,but it's a nice tool to have when you run across some metal your not sure of.

gelandangan

When I started casting I worried much about the hardness etc.
Nowadays, I found out that at the speed I am shooting them out (mostly below 1500 fps) it does not really matter provided I got the right powder and lube for them.. at least this is true in my case and with my guns.

I lube with LOTAK from Bullshop and I use the slowest powder possible that fill the case well and give me the right velocity range for the caliber I use.

Aloysius

Geland, do you use gaschecks?
I'm waiting for Lee's ALOX now and want to try bullets with this lube without GC, even with bullets that are shaped for a GC. Don't know what to expect, but I know that when something's wrong on the base of the bullet, it often results in very poor accuracy...

gelandangan

Yes Aloy, I use gaschecks.

res45

Aloysius wrote:

Geland, do you use gaschecks?
I'm waiting for Lee's ALOX now and want to try bullets with this lube without GC, even with bullets that are shaped for a GC. Don't know what to expect, but I know that when something's wrong on the base of the bullet, it often results in very poor accuracy...

Aloysius Have you ever used Alox before? If not here are a few tips that might make using it easier and less messy. Most people use to much all you need is a light golden sheen on your bullets. If using straight Alox the best way I've found is to mix 1 oz. of mineral spirits to the 4 oz. bottle of Alox,before applying the lube to your bullets warm it up in a container of hot tap water and shake it well before applying.

It's also helpful to warm you bullets up as well where there just warm to the touch but not hot. In a small container with a snap or screw on lid that holds about 2 cups I place 50 to 100 bullets depending on there size an weight in the container an apply 10 to 15 drops of lube or just drizzle a small amount in the shape of a Z on top of the bullets,snap on the lid and tumble vigorously while holding the lid on tight for several minutes changing the direction as well as inverting the container to give the bullets and even coat,then spread them out on wax paper to dry. Check the bullets for an even light coat and apply more lube if you feel it necessary. I usually don't as I'm going to repeat the process after I size / apply gas checks to my bullets so I'm basically applying two light coats anyway which is more than sufficient.

The tumble lube process will work just fine with regular grease groove bullets I've TL'ed thousands of regular grease groove bullet over the years and shot them up to 1900 fps. with gas check as there needed. Here are a couple of other liquid lubes using Alox.

Bens Lube
castboolits.gunloads.c...iquid-Lube

Recluse Lube
castboolits.gunloads.c...-Mess-Free

As to shooting cast lead bullet without a check that are designed to take a gas check. In general they work just fine but you want be able to push them as fast as accuracy tends to go south at some point,only your test with your bullet/powder/gun combination will show you where that is. In my test cast bullets shot in my pistols cast for 50/50 wheel weight/Lead do just fine with velocities at 1000 fps. or less with the checks left off. In rifles I shoot both the Lee 150 and 170 gr. RNFP bullet cast from air cooled wheel weight with the check left off with a couple light coats of Alox TL at around 1300 fps. with good accuracy and no leading.

50 yds. with a Sav. 30-30 pump,iron sights,7.0 grs. Red Dot.

The bullet on the right was cast for 50/50 with a BHN of around 10 an two light coat of Alox/JPW lube in a 38 Special behind 3.5 grs. Bullseye with the gas check left off. It's the same bullet as the one on the Left which is set up a little differently for full house 357 loads.

Pumpkinslinger

Gelan, I like your pencil/hardness test! Pretty clever!

Aloysius

this is all so interesting that this advices deserve a special place somewhere they can easely be found. I already copy/paste it in a mail to myself. It takes someone more clever than me to put it on an easy to find spot on this forum...

and thanks for sharing this knowledge!

gelandangan

The pencil hardness test was not my idea, I found it in Castboolits and have been using them for years since, they are good to estimate mystery lead ingots that appears now and then.

As to the gascheck, I put gaschecks on EVERY one of my casts, even those with plain base (for these I use very thin gaschecks made off aluminum soda can)

Vince

Aloysius wrote:

this is all so interesting that this advices deserve a special place somewhere they can easely be found. I already copy/paste it in a mail to myself. It takes someone more clever than me to put it on an easy to find spot on this forum...

and thanks for sharing this knowledge!

Gidday Aloys. Maybe Dallan would consider making this a "Sticky" so that it is readily available to those that want this info.