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Arizona Hunter Member
Joined: Jul 22, 2006 Posts: 275
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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This morning at Sams Club I paid "only" $2.28 a gal. for 87 octane. About 3 weeks ago it was 2.75. Never thought I would consider this a good price.
If ever an oil exec. needs their swim pool or spa serviced they better not complain about $65-$85 an hour plus parts!
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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Arizona Hunter,
Prices here have gone down quite abit to 2.72$ US per Gallon here, compared to 3.40$ US/Gal
Guess the oil companies realized that was the price ceiling and had to drop the price. As they were losing too much money.
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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guncollector Member
Joined: Apr 25, 2006 Posts: 68 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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I sell automation to the refining industry for a living so I make it my business to understand theirs. The truth is that gas prices have come down because crude oil prices have come down. Crude prices are down because inventories of crude and refined products (gas) are up - supply and demand. Inventories are up because there were no hurricanes this year to cause supply interruptions and there have been no new problems with the Middle East plus consumption has only risen about 1% this year instead of the usual 2.5%.
Are oil companies making money - sure but only about 8-10% return on investment which is much less than most businesses. Some do a little better than that but it is still well below the average business. They make a lot of money per employee but not much per dollar invested.
The only people really get rich off of high gas prices are the producing countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Nigeria and good old Venezuela. The people that own the mineral rights in the US and Canada are doing allright as individuals but that tends to be spread around quite a bit.
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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Guncollector,
You are right they dont make much compared to how much money they deal with.
This chart is neat sort of. Unless your a student or a young family
People talk about price caps for Crude Oil Products how about a good cap on childcare and tutition so we dont make it impossible to get higher education and child care for future generations ??
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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DallanC Site Admin
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3571 Location: Utah
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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Still over $2.85 here. State Governor launched an investigation into it and found refinery is selling fuel for $2.06 yet stores are marking it up ... way way up!
Totally screwing drivers!
-DallanC
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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Price caps don't work; we tried that in the early '70s and it was a mess. I would rather use technology to put the gas and oil industries out of business.
_________________ Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads |
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1895ss Super Member
Joined: Jul 21, 2005 Posts: 2612 Location: Not Here...!!
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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PaulS wrote: |
Price caps don't work; we tried that in the early '70s and it was a mess. I would rather use technology to put the gas and oil industries out of business. |
I totally agree........ it is time to put the oil companies out of business. They have had their way with us for too long.
_________________ A cruel truth is much more desirable than a really nice lie.
'Tis far better to walk alone than to follow a crowd or an a**hole going the wrong way. |
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guncollector Member
Joined: Apr 25, 2006 Posts: 68 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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The "use technology" solution is great if you keep it in perspective. Nothing short of magic will make a dent in the use of fossil fuels in our life times. If we work real hard at it, our grandkids might be able to rely more on nuclear energy than fossil fuel but that has its own challenges.
The other things like solar panels and wind mills are ridiculous. You could put a solar panel on every square inch of the US and a wind mill on every lot in Canada and you would still not have enough electricity to run Mexico - and they don't use near as much per person as US citizens.
Nuclear power is the only long term solution but I doubt it will cost any less to drive a mile in that electric car than my pickup takes today.
Liked your charts, Dimitri.
Dallan - to your $2.06 refinery gate price, add ~$0.40 in tax and $.20 in transportation cost to get it to the station. If they sell if for $2.92, that is only a 10% margin. The real money makers in those gas stations are the candy bars and soft drinks with the 70% markup.
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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Nuclear power is that answer, I've been saying that for years, did many projects in school about it and I'm still told "Solar/Hydroelectric/Wind" is the answer when I proved in my projects it isnt.
Hydro is effective in Canada and the US because we have enough rivers to dam up, but the other 2 are impractical as you mentioned and cost WAY too much.
The thing is Solar and Wind depend on consitancy from Mother Nature. And I think thats hoping for too much.
On a Interesting note the power used per person in 2001 from various countries of interest to the members here in Kilograms of oil equivalent (kgoe) per person per year
( from earthtrends.wri.org/te...e-351.html ):
Australia -> 5,974.9
Canada -> 7,999.5
Denmark -> 3,706.1
United Kingdom -> 3,993.8
United States -> 7,920.9
Canada is highest from the countrys I can remember members on the board come from on the top of my head
The biggest ones (that are more then Canada) are:
Qatar -> 26,888.3
Iceland -> 11,800.0
United Arab Emerates -> 11,331.7
Bahrain -> 9,323.2
Lexumberg -> 8,693.9
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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Gil Martin Super Member
Joined: Jan 28, 2005 Posts: 1837 Location: Schnecksville, PA
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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Gas is about $2.39 a gallon around here for 87 octane. I would dispute the statement that oil companies make very little profit. The numbers for Exxon/Mobil in the 4th quarter 2005 was $10 billion and a new world record. Then the CEO of Exxon/Mobil retired and got $400 million as a golden parachute. Guess who will have to pay the $400 million. All the best...
Gil
_________________ Gil |
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1895ss Super Member
Joined: Jul 21, 2005 Posts: 2612 Location: Not Here...!!
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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There is a lot of oil in my area and when the price per barrel is up, the oil companies around here spend money like there is no tommorrow, no matter what the cost, (waste a lot) and when the price per barrel goes down they don't spend a dime. They know they have us by the short curlys and I wish we could find a cheap alternative and soon and shut these greedy sob's down for good.
_________________ A cruel truth is much more desirable than a really nice lie.
'Tis far better to walk alone than to follow a crowd or an a**hole going the wrong way. |
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Handloader Super Member
Joined: Aug 22, 2005 Posts: 1032 Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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I would rather pay the prevailing rate for gasoline and have it available than have capped prices or government regulated prices and no availability. Our gas prices in the US are a bargain and current prices, adjust for inflation, are not disproportionate. This even more remarkable given the increased demand for oil from China and India.
I'm glad oil companies are profitable; that means more money for exploration and development of oil resources. I'm also glad I own shares in a very profitable oil company.
The biggest profiteers are those MidEastern countries than use the petro dollar to fund international terrorism. Independence from Saudi Arabian oil should be a top priority for the US. Develop Mexican and ANWAR oil supplies, expand Canadian oil extraction.
Our basic understanding that crude is finite may be mistaken as increasing studies show a steady replenishment rate in numerous areas. More research may give us insights into this process. In the interim, I say:
GO EXXON GO
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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I never belived the whole "dinisours died and made fossil feuls" myself
Metal Carbides might be a answer since putting water on them forms hydrocarbon compounds. Now after forming they in the depths of the Earth's crust can have a variaty of chemical changes that will produce everything we know and use thats in crude oil
If your wondering how old it is its almost as old as the periotic table as the guy that created the periotic table first came up with the bases of this idea.
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The famous Russian chemist Dimitri Mendeleev, whose pioneering work led to the creation of the periodic table, was the first to propose what has been named the "Carbide hypothesis" to explain the origins of petroleum. Mendeleev's science makes a lot of sense, as far as it goes. His assumption is that deep within the Earth there are compounds called metal carbides, which react with water in the form of hydrothermal solutions. |
And you know he was right metal carbides do form hydrocarbons
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:26 am Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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You have to start thinking about non-combustion ways to get the job done.
_________________ Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads |
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? |
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PaulS,
Tell me something who will front the bill to replace all transport trucks, SUV's, cars, buses, planes and the like ??
That is the main problem with other energy sources it would cost so much to convert no matter how good it is you wont get it off the ground much.
Personally I think all new cars and light trucks should be electric, with batteries that would last a good 24 hours of driving before needing to recharge. Only way to get our dependance of oil out is to force it on people sadly enough.
And then we must built tons of nuclear power plants to supply these new cars with power. And get rid of coal and gas power plants at the same time.
What you think ??
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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