HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 365
BOT: 1
Total: 366
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Home
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Your Account
10: Forums
11: Home
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Your Account
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Home
21: Forums
22: Your Account
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Photo Albums
26: Forums
27: Home
28: Your Account
29: Home
30: Forums
31: Your Account
32: Your Account
33: Your Account
34: Your Account
35: Home
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Photo Albums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Home
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: News
52: Home
53: Forums
54: Your Account
55: Home
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Your Account
59: Forums
60: Your Account
61: Photo Albums
62: Your Account
63: Photo Albums
64: Photo Albums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Home
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Your Account
77: Photo Albums
78: Forums
79: Your Account
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Your Account
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Photo Albums
87: Your Account
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Home
92: Forums
93: Home
94: Home
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Home
98: Home
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Home
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Your Account
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Photo Albums
109: Photo Albums
110: Forums
111: Home
112: Your Account
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Home
117: Forums
118: Photo Albums
119: Photo Albums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Photo Albums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Your Account
131: Forums
132: Your Account
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Home
139: Home
140: Forums
141: Your Account
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Forums
149: Your Account
150: Forums
151: Photo Albums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Home
155: Your Account
156: Home
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Your Account
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Home
169: Home
170: Your Account
171: Your Account
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Home
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Photo Albums
182: Your Account
183: Forums
184: Forums
185: Your Account
186: Home
187: Your Account
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Your Account
191: Forums
192: Your Account
193: Home
194: Forums
195: Home
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Photo Albums
201: Home
202: Your Account
203: Home
204: Your Account
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Your Account
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Home
214: Forums
215: Home
216: Forums
217: Forums
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Photo Albums
223: Your Account
224: Forums
225: Your Account
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Statistics
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Your Account
240: Forums
241: Photo Albums
242: Forums
243: Photo Albums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Home
250: Forums
251: Photo Albums
252: Forums
253: Forums
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Your Account
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Your Account
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Forums
270: Forums
271: Photo Albums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Home
275: Home
276: Forums
277: Forums
278: Forums
279: Your Account
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Photo Albums
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Photo Albums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Photo Albums
295: Forums
296: Home
297: Your Account
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Your Account
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Forums
304: Forums
305: Photo Albums
306: Photo Albums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Your Account
310: Forums
311: Photo Albums
312: Home
313: Photo Albums
314: Forums
315: Photo Albums
316: Your Account
317: Forums
318: Forums
319: Your Account
320: Your Account
321: Forums
322: Statistics
323: Forums
324: Forums
325: Forums
326: Forums
327: Forums
328: Forums
329: Forums
330: Photo Albums
331: Forums
332: Forums
333: Forums
334: Forums
335: Forums
336: Home
337: Your Account
338: Forums
339: Forums
340: Home
341: Photo Albums
342: Home
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Home
347: Forums
348: Your Account
349: Forums
350: Photo Albums
351: Forums
352: Forums
353: Forums
354: Statistics
355: Home
356: Forums
357: Forums
358: Forums
359: Your Account
360: Photo Albums
361: Forums
362: Forums
363: Forums
364: Forums
365: Forums
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820723
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

308 ishy 2a report
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
Go to page Previous  1, 2
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

One problem with NATO rounds other then the pressure is that the brass is thicker and it also is designed to expand more in the chamber to compensate for different countries manufacturing methods as well as dirt and grim that will jam up a commercial rifle Smile

Ether way if you did have a Mil-Surplus rifle and were worried about it you can always rebarrel it later on Wink

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
kbis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 05, 2005
Posts: 312
Location: East, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

Don't all manufactures have to maintain an industry standard as to min. pressure?
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

Kbis,

If the manufacture of firearms or ammunition is a member of a group like SAMMI then they all are designed to take a minium proof load (about 70,000 PSI from what I've read) from the factory after being built when they are test fired.

But that doesnt mean the design can only take that much for example the design of the M1 Garand was proofed at 120,000 PSI (during testing) the left bolt lug would crack but the rifle will survive another 5,000 service rounds before failing. Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
kbis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 05, 2005
Posts: 312
Location: East, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

Any idea which manufactures do not adhere to SAMMI ? I thought all co.'s followed SAMMI. Just like drug co.'s have to follow the FDA.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

Kbis,

Not a clue sorry most (if not all) manufactures in North America, Europe and Australia probably go by SAMMI if they are in it or not because of liability issues etc. Wink

Now go to any other place and I wouldnt too much trust the ammo or the firearms myself. But thats just me Smile

PS SAMMI is self regulation by the firearms industry (as far as I know) and it isnt "goverment" like the FDA. I'll need to check this out though Confused

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

Opps been saying it wrong its SAAMI,

Anyways here is there page: www.saami.org/

And at the top:

Quote::
The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute (SAAMI) is an association of the nation’s leading manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components. SAAMI was founded in 1926 at the request of the federal government and tasked with:

* Creating and publishing industry standards for safety, interchangeability, reliability and quality
* Coordinating technical data
* Promoting safe and responsible firearms use

Not goverment but made by them Smile

Also to be in SAMMI officially you need to be a American company apparently:

Quote::
SAAMI Membership is open to any domestic primary manufacturer producing and selling within the United States, or domestic designing firm or corporation causing to be manufactured to its basic design and selling within the United States under its own name, (a) sporting firearms or ammunition subject to the United States manufacturer's excise tax or (b) propellants for sporting ammunition. For this purpose a domestic primary manufacturer producing and selling sporting firearms, ammunition, or propellants within the United States is a United States firm or corporation that sells within the United States a significant quantity of such products and a substantial part of such product is actually fabricated and/or assembled within the United States.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
kbis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 05, 2005
Posts: 312
Location: East, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

I hate to be a pain, but I am still confused (so whats new Smile ). According to ddgsnipe the NATO 7.62 is desgined for as max of 50 KPSI and the 308 is designed for a max. of 62 KPSI. So if all U.S. manufactures adhere to SAAMI then they are stronger, correct ?
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

Kbis,

Yes and no. Military rifles at the time of the M1 Garand were proofed as 70,000PSI so commerial ammo should be "ok" in most rifles just using pressure ratings. For example:

7.62x51mm NATO is lower pressure at 50,000PSI then commerical 308Win and this causes a problem when shooting commerical in Mil-Surplus rifles. This was caused by Winchester releasing the 308WIN before the Army standardized 7.62mm NATO ammo.

But the 5.56x45mm NATO is higher then commerical at 60,000PSI compared to the commerical's 50,000PSI so shooting surplus in a commerial is problematic according to the pressures (unless you have one of thouse "special" chambers on some AR's). Smile

The real problem (in my opinion and the opinion of others) comes into play that military rifles have bigger then normal chambers and throuts to allow easy loading, firing and extracting then commercial ammo under battlefield conditions. And they use more rebust and stronger brass then commerical manufatures use to make theres as it is not needed for it in commerical ammo and commercial chambers. For example:

The 308Win
Go Gage is - 1.6300"
No Go Gage - 1.6340"

The 7.62NATO
Go Gage - 1.6350"
No Go Gage - 1.6405"

The NATO Go gage is actually slightly bigger then the 308Win No Go Gage. Shocked

There are so many websites deticated to the 308Win vs 7.62mm NATO and also the 5.56x45mm NATO and the 223 Remington. A google search will list many of them. ( On google - 308 vs 7.62 - Lists 163,000 Sites)

Older military rounds don't have this problem, the 30-06Spring, 303British, and the 8mm Mauser for example were completly developed by their respective militaries before commericalization took place Wink

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
kbis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 05, 2005
Posts: 312
Location: East, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

That would tend to explain why my friends assult weapon (Mil. surplus, I have no idea what it is) ripped the head right off the case of some Wolf brand ammo.

Thanks for the info.

Ken
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

Kbis,

Unless it has a selector switch and can go into the "fun" mode as some people call it no matter what its design is its not a Assult rifle its part of the proper definition of a assult rifle. Wink

Now if he does have the switch installed and its a pre-86 (I think thats the year) thats neat! I havnt even seen a rifle with that in person nevermind fired one. Sad

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
kbis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 05, 2005
Posts: 312
Location: East, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

No selector switch, just semi-auto. I am not sure you would call the M16 they gave me over seas an assult rifle but it had a selector. You would be amazed how fast you can go though a 20 round clip and not hit much Smile .
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

Ah, well the the M16 is a assult rifle eventhough I hear they only have 3 round brust on the ones that they issue in the US Millitary for the most part. Can you conform this ?? Confused

The AR-15 that they sell is not a assult rifle as its missing the switch. Smile

Safe shooting!

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
kbis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 05, 2005
Posts: 312
Location: East, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report Reply with quote

Yes, they are no longer full auto, I guess we wasted to much ammo in Nam. It sure was nice to be able to spray the jungle with rounds when you didn't know where they were.
Back to top
View user's profile
MGKelly
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: Feb 06, 2008
Posts: 24
Location: G. R. Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 308 ishy 2a report (again!) Reply with quote

I know this is an old post but I had to comment; the 7.62 NATO vs. .308Win issue in the Ishapore 2A1 is definatly an old argument. I bought my 2A1 in 1999 and cleaned er up to find a six groove barrel and all matching numbers, at that time I hadn't heard about the .308 being higher in pressure and so for several years that is all I used in the rifle. After I heard all the arguments I had the rifle checked by a competent gun smith and it was pronounced safe and solid, no receiver stretching, no cracking, no over-pressure indications, no damaged brass, etc. Well to be safe I started to reload my own ammo for it, I used once fired 7.62 NATO M60 casings (had a friend in the reserves who got me several bags of the stuff). Either way it shoots just fine and I'm not afraid to use commercial ammo if need be. The 2A1 I have was made in 1967, and uses modern steel and heat treating processes (actualy all 2A and 2A1's do) so I am reasonably confortable with this rifle. If you aren't comfy with commercial ammo then dont use it, there's plenty of surplus 7.62 around (including India made) to be had.

One other item, the Brits tried to convert some #4's to 7.62 for sniping, while the barrels were modern, the receivers were original and were prone to streching and the bolt faces evidenced damage as well after modrate use. The receiver, barrel, and bolt must all be of modern manufacture to handle even the 7.62 NATO ammo.

This is just my experience and opinion so take it for what it's worth. Cool

M. G.

_________________
Doing the "right" thing for the wrong reason is still wrong.

PETA: People for the Eating of Tasty Animals

Euthanasia: Viet Nam
Euthanmideast: Iraq
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.