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UniBrow Rookie Member
Joined: Sep 30, 2008 Posts: 6
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Load Development Question - |
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When Developing a Load for a bolt action rifle which do you do first, determine Charge Weight or Seat Depth?
I have seen some differing of opinion on this.
I have reloaded shotshells, pistol and .223. In all cases I just picked a load out of a manual & used it as is.
I am about to load for my .270 for the first time. I will try to tune my load for accuracy. My guess is to start with a constant (safe) seating depth & tune by charge weight first. I will be trying the ladder method.
Load development, Checking where the rifling starts and Ladder method is all new territory for me.
I have my once fire cases prepped & the only thing left to do is start loading.
Thanks,
UniBrow.
BTW: Looks like a nice site here. I get tired of the fighting on other sites. Seems to be none of that here.
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DallanC Site Admin
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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For me its powder first (in both type and amount), then fine tune with seating depth. I dont think there is a right or wrong way to do this, its a matter of opinion.
-DallanC
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shrpshtrjoe Super Red Neck Member
Joined: Jan 26, 2005 Posts: 2965 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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Welcome to the HuntingNut . I always start with the powder I will try and pick one with the best velocity and good case volume I like the case volume to be a compressed load or very near compressed when possible ( I feel there more consistent). I will vary powder charges until I find the most accurate charge and fine tune with the seating depth.
Joe
_________________ "MOLON LABE"
P E T A
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denis Member
Joined: Sep 30, 2008 Posts: 40 Location: Columbia, MO
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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With regard to seating depth -- I have been using a fresh factory round as a "template" to set the setting depth for a particular bullet. For example, to reload brass from a Remington 150gr Core Lokt spitzer, I adjust the seater die to a fresh factory round, and then adjust from that point on the reload, using calipers to confirm the proper COL. My fired cases are neck-sized, and I apply no crimp.
Is this pretty close to optimal?
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5002 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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Like the fellers say, I keep the same seating depth until I find the most accurate powder charge. Then you can try tweaking the seating depth. I use the bullet manufacturer's suggested OAL to start with, as long as it will fit in my magazine.
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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SingleShotLover Super Member
Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 1005 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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Like Pumpkinslinger said; powder first using the manual's recommended OAL. Once I get reasonable results with the chosen powder I experiment by varying the OAL until accuracy tops out.
_________________ If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!
The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.
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slipshot Member
Joined: Sep 06, 2008 Posts: 37 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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Don't forget to try a few different brands of primers also. I found on my 25-06 that they can tighten groups in a big way. I haven't figured out how to start with the right primer and apparently neather has anyone else but its sure worth the time and extra $ to do some testing.
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UniBrow Rookie Member
Joined: Sep 30, 2008 Posts: 6
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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I'm lucky in the regard that there is a store locally that has a nice selection of primers.
I also found that the local Academy has one brand each of LR primers and 209's.
Thanks for the replies.
UniBrow
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Dawgdad Super Member
Joined: Feb 08, 2006 Posts: 1065 Location: On the Prairie
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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denis wrote: |
With regard to seating depth -- I have been using a fresh factory round as a "template" to set the setting depth for a particular bullet. For example, to reload brass from a Remington 150gr Core Lokt spitzer, I adjust the seater die to a fresh factory round, and then adjust from that point on the reload, using calipers to confirm the proper COL. My fired cases are neck-sized, and I apply no crimp.
Is this pretty close to optimal? |
It is a good safe place to start. If you get accuracy and velocity you are satisied with you are done. But if you expect more or are just curious buy nature you can tweek the powder, primer and seating depth to try to find the "sweet spot" for your gun. Each chamber is cut slightly differently even if the same reamer and operator is used. To find the absolute optimal load conditions can be very frustrating and very rewarding.
The key is to have an end in mind when you start the process. If your gun will only hold 2-3 MOA with factory loads... When you start off to duplicate the factory performance but improve the accuracy to 1 MOA or better you establish some limits. This will keep you from going way down the scale in powder and getting a real accurate round that hardly pokes a hole in the paper or getting too crazy about group size and trying to get one hole groups at 300 yards and spending all of your time shooting and developing a load rather than using it in the field or on the range in competition.
One other thing for beginners to understand is exactly how well they can shoot. If you cannot hold 1 moa from a bench rest you will never get a gun to shoot tighter than that. Work on a consistent and repeatable technique for evaluating your handloads. Shooting standing off hand unsupported is probably not the best way to evaluate a load.
_________________ Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency... |
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hunterjoe21 Super Member
Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Posts: 1486 Location: Miles City, Montana
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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Dawgdad wrote: |
denis wrote: |
With regard to seating depth -- I have been using a fresh factory round as a "template" to set the setting depth for a particular bullet. For example, to reload brass from a Remington 150gr Core Lokt spitzer, I adjust the seater die to a fresh factory round, and then adjust from that point on the reload, using calipers to confirm the proper COL. My fired cases are neck-sized, and I apply no crimp.
Is this pretty close to optimal? |
Shooting standing off hand unsupported is probably not the best way to evaluate a load. |
Dammit!!!
All that wasted ammo......
No wonder I can't shoot bettet than 2 MOA.....
_________________ My 1911 is more effective than your 911. |
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wncchester Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 160
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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Seating depth can tweak a good load but it can't make a bummer load into a winner. Develop your bullet & powder charge first, then see if you can make it better with small seating changes.
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Handloader Super Member
Joined: Aug 22, 2005 Posts: 1032 Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:20 am Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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Nosler and Barnes current loading manuals show load density for each load. A good general approach is to identify the powder that gives the highest velocity and the highest load density. In useful terms, that will be the powder(s) that will be the best choice.
Primers affect accuracy by having different levels of power or brissilance (sp?). Testing has shown as much as a 5,000 psi difference by switching primers. For load development, it is more a priority to match the primer type (standard or magnum) to the powder volume and burn rate and keep the primer constant until a specific load is identified. Little improvement in accuracy or velocity will be gained by switching primers IF pressures are the same.
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slipshot Member
Joined: Sep 06, 2008 Posts: 37 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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Handloader wrote: |
Primers affect accuracy by having different levels of power or brissilance (sp?). Testing has shown as much as a 5,000 psi difference by switching primers. For load development, it is more a priority to match the primer type (standard or magnum) to the powder volume and burn rate and keep the primer constant until a specific load is identified. Little improvement in accuracy or velocity will be gained by switching primers IF pressures are the same. |
Thats funny.......I have 2 load sheets here with everything the same except the BRAND of primer. CCI shot 1.324" Group at 100 and WLR shot .493" at 100. Theses two sets of shells had same amount and lot of powder, cases prepared the same, same bullets and lot, seated the same distance and shot within 20 minutes of each other.
I am not arguing your point just showing in fact primers will improve accuracy or they did in this situation anyway. Seems some powders like a colder primer and some like a hot primer. Better burn gets better results IMO.
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English Mike Super Member
Joined: Jan 08, 2007 Posts: 1709 Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Load Development Question - |
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Hey UniBrow.
Do you by any chance own a FAL with a Century receiver?
(Those who do will know why I ask - those who don't can Google )
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