I took my son to a local gun show today. It actually started yesterday, but since my parents were still in town for Thanksgiving, so we postponed our foray to today.

After we got in, he disappeared quickly in the crowd and I looked around for what interested me (which was most everything). After about a half hour the boy showed up and told me he had died and gone to Heaven. I pointed out that it was more likely the other place, since he was walking around with an empty wallet.

All together we spent over two hours there, and I decided to sit down and let the world go by for a while. A lot of people had bought firearms, and most of them were carrying them safely. One guy was definitely a poster child to how NOT to carry a firearm -- He had himself a Marlin 336 lever action gripping it in his right hand. Three fingers were in the lever, the index finger was inside the trigger guard, the barrel was pointed at a concrete floor. And of course the action was closed.

I was proud that my son knew to keep his trigger finger outside the trigger guard, even when handling a firearm with its action open. Safe firearm handling is one of the most important things we can pass on to our kids.

Yes there are a lot of morons out there that bring bad name to the sport and gives even worse example to the next generation..
I would comment directly to the fellow that it is not a safe practice to hold a gun that way..
Assuming that I think he is a stable person (not some suicidal maniac that is preparing a rampage in a gun show)

The biggest gunshow of the year for Phoenix opens next Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Its the BIG Crossroads of the West and is combined with Small Arms Review (Class III). I have two tables and lot of the stuff to sell (scopes, barrels, ammo, dies, various firearms) and we are expecting huge crowds, part of the current gun buying frenzie.

I truly enjoy walking around gunshow, big or small. As a buyer, it is amazing the junk that comes out and the gems that one can find. As a seller I am surprised that many of those attending believe they can find really good deals and cheap ammo. Well, good deals can happen but fair market value rules the day. I enjoy discussing stuff with buyers and, once in awhile, a good trade offer will occur. Most people buying and selling are enjoying a truly unique event. Me, too.

gelandangan wrote:

Yes there are a lot of morons out there that bring bad name to the sport and gives even worse example to the next generation.. I would comment directly to the fellow that it is not a safe practice to hold a gun that way.. Assuming that I think he is a stable person (not some suicidal maniac that is preparing a rampage in a gun show)

Well, this guy mas moving around and the moment passed while I was still shaking my head.

I imagine that with all the vendors there were a certain percentage who were carrying, so it might have been safe to say something. It appeared that every firearm that was on display had an electrical cable tie or some other device to render the action inoperable. This firearm did not have any such device visible.

At the gun shows here (NC) every gun carried in the door is rendered inoperable with a cable tie through the action, barrel or whatever. Having a gun without the tie will get you tossed out.

The past few years, I have worked several gun shows for our Sportsmen's Club.

Sitting at our table, and watching folks for a few days, I came to the conclusion that at least half the people at the shows that I worked were flat out WEIRD.

I wouldn't want to be in the same county that those guys were shooting in.
I seemed to me that a lot of Ruby Ridge types dwelled at the shows.

Maybe I got the wrong impression, or I just got the shows where all the slobs were at.

I came away with the feeling that maybe there should be the same checks at the shows like there is at the gun shops.

I don't go to many shows, so I could be wrong, but I wanted to wash in Lysol when I got home.

Eric

I haven't been to a gun show in YEARS where the same checks done at gun stores WEREN'T done. ??

Pumpkinslinger wrote:

I haven't been to a gun show in YEARS where the same checks done at gun stores WEREN'T done. ??

I saw a number of transactions take place and the only paperwork was counting the money.

My son did have an interesting observation -- We had gone to another show at the same location several months ago, and he mentioned this weekend that the "skinheads" seemed not to be attending this one.

This is definitely NOT a random sampling of the population....

ElyBoy wrote:

The past few years, I have worked several gun shows for our Sportsmen's Club. I wouldn't want to be in the same county that those guys were shooting in. I seemed to me that a lot of Ruby Ridge types dwelled at the shows. Maybe I got the wrong impression, or I just got the shows where all the slobs were at. I don't go to many shows, so I could be wrong, but I wanted to wash in Lysol when I got home. Eric

wow eric this is quite disturbing. equating a man who dont want messed with, was entrapped into a federal firearms crime, AND had his wife murdered while holding his son- to being a slob and you having to wash in lysol..

Denis, maybe I crossed my signals here... All sales by a dealer require paperwork and a background check. Sales between individuals may not, depending on the state. In NC any handgun purchase, even between individuals, requires a permit to purchase. If I sell my brother a handgun he still has to provide that permit. Personally I don't see much problem with sales between individuals not requiring all the paperwork.

Pumpkinslinger wrote:

Denis, maybe I crossed my signals here... All sales by a dealer require paperwork and a background check. Sales between individuals may not, depending on the state. In NC any handgun purchase, even between individuals, requires a permit to purchase. If I sell my brother a handgun he still has to provide that permit. Personally I don't see much problem with sales between individuals not requiring all the paperwork.

That's what I figured you meant. For now, the much-discussed "gun show loophole" still exists in many states. I am surprised though, that North Carolina has a permit requirement for private sales, even if it is limited only to handguns. Is there a story behind that?

This shows just how much I know guys.
In Minnesota, a sale between two private parties is just that. Private.
I thought that all states were the same as ours.

I learn something new every day around here.

You know what I meant Morax.
Don't go there with me.
What happened to the Ruby Ridge folks was sad, but they put themselves in the situation for bad things to happen.

Ruby Ridge types of people and me just don't think the same way about life.
They can take a lysol bath if they are around me, and I'll do the same if I'm around them.

Eric

ruby ridge type people huh... they put themselves in it themselves.... next you will say all germans were nazis

Humm talking about Ruby Ridge, anyone see HS Precisions new trophy room?

www.progunleaders.org/H-S/

Dimitri

BEGINNERS FIELD GUIDE To GUN SHOWS

Gun shows are an old and honored American tradition.
The basic idea-putting sellers, buyers, and stock in the
same room and letting Free Market Forces go to work is
as old as commerce, but the American form of gun show
has evolved its own manners, vocabulary, and etiquette.

Gun shows are run by and for dreamers. Every dealer
who sets up a table seems to think that the people who
attend are drooling half-wits who will happily pay 25%
more than manufacturer's suggested retail price for their
goods; and while at the same time, all the attendees hold
it as an article of faith that the exhibitors are desperate
men who have come in the hopes of finally disposing of
their stock at 30% less than wholesale cost.
Now, in this environment it helps to have some idea
what to expect; so for the benefit of those who are so
unfortunate as never to have experienced this distinctively
and very American form of mass entertainment, I offer this
guide, the summation of what I've learned from 30+ years
of show-going. I've also included a glossary of terms you'll
need to know, and an introduction to some of the people
you'll meet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GLOSSARY
The following terms apply to items offered for sale:

MINT CONDITION: In original condition as manufactured,
unfired, and preferably in the original box with all original
manufacturer's tags, labels, and paperwork.

NEAR-MINT CONDITION: Has had no more than 5,000
rounds fired through it, and it still retains at least 60% of
the original finish. Surface pitting is no more than 1/8"
deep, and both grip panels are in place. If it is a .22RF, then
some of the rifling is expected to still be visible.

VERY GOOD: Non-functional when you buy it, but if you
are mechanically talented, you can probably get it to work
if you also replace 100% of the parts.

FAIR: Rusted into a solid mass with a shape vaguely
reminiscent of a firearm. Rarely identifiable as to make.

TIGHT: In revolvers, the cylinder swings out, but you'll need
two hands to close it again. For autoloaders, you must bang
the front of the slide on a table to push it back.

REALLY TIGHT: In revolvers you cannot open the cylinder
without a large screwdriver used as a lever. Once it's open
the extractor rod gets stuck halfway through its travel. On
autoloaders, you need a sizeable hammer to close the slide.

A LITTLE LOOSE: In revolvers, the cylinder falls out on the
floor and the chambers are 1/4" out of line when locked up.
There is no more than ½" of cylinder end play. For auto-
loaders, the barrel falls out when the slide is retracted. If the
barrel stays in place, the slide falls off.

GOOD BORE: You can tell it was once rifled and even
approximately how many grooves there were.

FAIR BORE: Probably would be similar to GOOD BORE,
.....if you could just see through it.

NEEDS A LITTLE WORK: May function occassionally ...if
you have a gunsmith replace minor parts, such as the bolt,
cylinder, slide, or barrel.

ARSENAL RECONDITIONED: I cleaned it up with a wire
wheel and some pretty randy stuff I bought at K-Mart.

ANTIQUE: I found it in a barn, and I think it dates from
before 1960. (Note that ANTIQUE guns are usually found
in FAIR condition).

RARE VARIANT: No more than 500,000 of this model
were ever made, not counting the ones produced before
serial numbers were required. Invariably, RARE VARIANTS
command a premium price of 150% of BOOK VALUE.

BOOK VALUE: An ill-defined number that dealers consider
insultingly low and buyers ridiculously high. Since no one
pays any attention to it, it doesn't matter who is right.

IT BELONGED TO MY GRANDFATHER: I bought
it at a flea market or yard sale two weeks ago.

IT BELONGED TO SOMEONE FAMOUS: My grandfather
once saw one of the Indian extras on the Wild West Show
using a gun just like this one. He has a handwritten note from
the Indian and dated 1915. It is written with a ball-point pen.

CIVIL WAR RELIC: The vendor's great-grandfather knew a
man whose friend's cousins brother-in-law once said he had
been in the Civil War.

SHOOTS REAL GOOD: For rifles, this means at 100 yards
it will put every shot into a 24" circle ....if there isn't any wind
and you're using a machine rest. For handguns, three out of
six rounds will impact a silhouette target at seven yards. In
shotguns, it means that the full choke tube throws 60%
patterns with holes no larger than 8" in them.

ON CONSIGNMENT: The vendor at the show does not own
the gun. It belongs to a friend, customer, or business associate,
and he has been instructed to sell it ....for which he will be paid
a commission. He has no authority to discuss price. The price
marked is 50% above BOOK VALUE. All used guns offered
for sale at gun shows, without exception, are always ON
CONSIGNMENT, and the dealer is required by his Code of
Ethics to tell you this as soon as you ask the price. (A BATF
study has proven that since 1934 there has never been a single
authenticated case of a used gun being offered for sale at a gun
show that was actually owned by the dealer showing it.)

I'LL LET IT GO FOR WHAT I HAVE IN IT: I'll settle for what
I paid for it .....plus a 250% profit.

MAKE ME AN OFFER: Hmmmm.... How dumb are you?

TELL ME HOW MUCH IT'S WORTH TO YOU: Hey...I'll bet
you're even dumber than you look!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
PEOPLE YOU WILL MEET AT THE GUN SHOW

RAMBO: He's looking for an Ingram MAC-10, and wants to
have it custom chambered in .44 Magnum as a back-up gun.
For primary carry, he wants a .50cal Desert Eagle, provided
he can get it custom chambered in .50 BMG. He derides the
.50 Action Express as a "wimp round" designed for ladies'
pocket pistols and Boys Rifles. He has already bought three
years' worth of freeze-dried MRE's from MARK, as well as
seven knives. He is dressed in camouflage BDU's and a black
T-shirt with the 101st AirBorne Division insignia, though he
has never been in the Army. He works as a bag boy at Kroger's.

BUBBA: He needs some money, and has reluctantly decided
to sell his Daddy's .30-30, a Marlin 336 made in 1961. He
indignantly refuses all cash offers below his asking price of
$475. Unable to sell it, eventually he trades it, and kicks in
another $175 cash for a new-in-box H&R Topper in 219
Zipper. He feels pretty good about the deal.

CLYDE and WARREN : They are two first cousins who
attend every gunshow in their area, and rarely have anything
more than lunch money in their wallets. Between them, they
could not come up with the price of a carton of 22RF
ammunition, and would prefer to spend their money on a
pizza on the way home. Both are clinically obese and have
cholesterol levels 175% over normal. People walking near
them often wonder where the smell is coming from.....

GORDON: He is walking the aisles with a Remington Model
700 ADL in 30-06 on his shoulder with a cardboard "For Sale"
easel sign. He's put an Uncle Mike's cordura sling and a Tasco
3x9 variable scope on it. A small stick protrudes from the barrel,
bearing the words, "LIKE NEW ONLY THREE BOXES
SHELLS FIRED - BARGAIN $800." This is his third trip to a
show with this particular rifle, which he has never actually used,
since he lives in a shotgun-only area for deer.

ARNOLD : He is a car salesman in Charlottesville , Virginia .
He has a passion for Civil War guns, especially cap-and-ball
revolvers. He has a reproduction cheap Italian-made 44-cal
Remington 1858, and hgas been looking for a real one he can
afford. He owns two other guns: a S&W Model 60 and a
pre-War Sauer & Sohn drilling with Luftwaffe markings that
his grandfather brought home in 1945. He has no idea what
caliber the rifle barrel on his drilling is, and he last fired the
Model 60 five years ago.

JOSE': An illegal immigrant, he is keeping a low profile while
attempting to buy a .380 semi-auto. His lack of good use of
the English language has raised suspicions that he is actually
working for the BATF. He is getting frustrated.

[beeep]: He is a gun dealer who makes his overhead selling
Jennings J-25's, Lorcin .380's, Raven .25ACPs, and H&R
top-break revolvers. He buys the J-25's in lots of 1000 direct
from the factory at $28.75 each, and sells them for $68.00 to
gun show customers. He buys the H&R's for $10 at estate
auctions and asks $85 for them, letting you talk him down to
$78 when he is feeling generous. His records are meticulously
kept: he insists on proper ID and a signature on the 4473, but
he doesn't mind if the ID and the signature aren't yours, just as
long as the sex is right. Other than his stock, he owns no guns
and he has no interest in them, other than mercenary.

ARLENE: She is [beeep]'s wife. She hates guns and gun shows
more than anything in the entire world. Her husband insists
that she accompany him to keep an eye on the table when he's
dickering or has to go to the men's room. She refuses to come
unless she can bring her SONY portable TV, even though she
gets lousy reception in the Civic Center and there isn't any
cable hook-ups. When [beeep] is away from the table, she has
no authority to negotiate, rarely knows the price of any
unmarked item .....and demands full asking price for everything
that does have a tag. She doesn't know the difference between
a rifle and a shotgun, and what's more, she doesn't care. Her
stone-deaf half blind and overweight mongrel lap dog sleeps
under the table and occassionally "breaks wind" with odiferous
results.

MARK: He doesn't have an FFL. He buys a table at the show
to sell nylon holsters, magazines, T-shirts, bumper stickers,
beannie babies, beef jerky,fake Nazi regalia, surplus web gear,
MRE's and accessories.He makes more money than anyone else in
the hall.

JOE: A long-time show attendee, JOE is a social outcast to
most table holders, since he accidentally discharged his
"carry gun" when showing it to the table holder next to him.
He was banned for life from that promotors show, but has
managed to sneak in using a friends name.

ALAN: He's not a dealer, but he had a bunch of odds and ends
to dispose of, so he bought a table. On it he displays used
loading dies in 7.65 Belgian and .25-20, both in boxes from
the original Herter's company. He also has a half-box of
.38-55 cartridges, a Western-style gun belt he hasn't been
able to wear since 1978, a used cleaning kit, and a non-
operable nickel-plated Iver Johnson Premier revolver in
.32 S&W. He's asking $125 for the gun and $40 for each of
the die sets. He paid $35 for the table and figures he needs to
get at least that much to cover his expenses and the value of
his time.

GERALD: He's a physician specializing in diseases of the
rich. He collects Brownings, and specializes in High-Power
pistols, Superposed shotguns, and Model 1900's. He has 98%
of the known variations of each of these, and now plans to
branch out into the 1906 and 1910 pocket pistols. He owns
no handguns made after the Germans left Liege in 1944. He
regards Japanese-made "Brownings" as a personal insult and
is a little contempuous of Inglis-made High-Powers. He does
not hunt or shoot. He buys all his gun accessories from Orvis
and Dunn's.

KEVIN: He is 13, and this is his first gun show. His eyes are
bugged out with amazement, and he wonders what his old
J.C. Higgins single-shot 20-gauge is worth. His father gives
him an advance on his allowance so he can buy a used
Remington Nylon 66. He's now hooked for life and will one
day end up on the NRA's Board of Directors.