Barrel contact with stock and accuracy

lesterg3

OK guys, be gentle with me on this. Shocked

I have looked at posting history and have not seen anything about this, so if I missed it I apologize.

I have a Rem 700 7MM Mag that is not very consistent in grouping.

I have tried two different scopes that have preformed well on other rifles, and have gone through the standard checklist of tightening screws and so on. Have cleaned and cleaned and cleaned. Mad

The bore on the barrel looks great.

I am not using hand loads yet, but constantly use Rem Core-Lokt ammo, 150 gr PSP.

One thing I have noticed is that the barrel is in contact with the stock, what I mean here is that I cannot get a piece of cigarette wrapper cellophane between the barrel and the stock.

I don't have anything thinner to try with.

From what I have read barrels should be free from contact with the stock,

True? False?

If this is true, what do you suggest I do? Confused

Can I just sand down the barrel relief on the stock, or is it more complicated?

What is the best thing to do, I would like to keep this rifle, but expect more from it than it's giving me. Mad

I purchased this rifle used, and am having a love hate relationship with it right now.

One other thing, if I do indeed need to rework the stock's barrel cavity, would it be a good idea to refinish the stock at the same time, any suggestions?

SingleShotLover

Barrels that are free-floated will shoot better than those that are not...maybe.

I know that is an ambiguous answer, but the facts are that some rifles like contact and others don't. Before floating your barrel, look to make sure that there is no uneven pressure anywhere along the channel and the action is properly bedded. Sometimes manufacturer's finishes are thin and allow the grain to raise in these places causing contact that bears unevenly along the barrel. This can also be a major cause of accuracy problems.

The best way for you to find out if your barrel will benefit from floating is to place a thin layer of cardboard (squares of business card work great) between the stock and the action right at the recoil lug area. Use just enough to allow a sheet of typing paper to pass freely between the barrel and the barrel channel. Make absolutely sure that there is sufficient clearance between the bolt body and the rear of the bolt cutout in the stock to keep the bolt from contacting the stock in this area upon firing (this will almost certainly cause a split in this area and since the grain is likely running the length of the stock, it will knock a generous amount of the stock loose). Now try your rifle.

If this works, carefully sanding the barrel channel to allow for the same barrel clearance will free-float your barrel. If you choose to do this, try maintaining contact for the first couple of inches forward of the recoil lug. Some rifles like this and if yours doesn't, it is easy to just remove material in that area too. Just be sure to seal the channel with stock oil or a good "spar" varnish to prevent the grain from raising with humidity and causing you problems later.

If you are going to do this work it would seem to be an ideal opportunity to refinish the stock at the same time if you plan to anyway.

Good luck and keep us posted as to your results.

Gil Martin

It depends whether free-floating a barrel channel will help a rifle shoot better. All of my bolt action hunting rifles have been floated and they shoot great. I have known cases where free floating did not help, but that was rare. So it depends. My suggestion would be to try it and if it does not work, then glass bed the action or some other option. All the best...
Gil

shrpshtrjoe

Gil Martin wrote:

It depends whether free-floating a barrel channel will help a rifle shoot better. All of my bolt action hunting rifles have been floated and they shoot great. I have known cases where free floating did not help, but that was rare. So it depends. My suggestion would be to try it and if it does not work, then glass bed the action or some other option. All the best...
Gil

+1 on what Gil said. You said the rifle does not shoot consistent groups ?. Does it just not group well or are the groups eratic.
Joe

wncchester · Member Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 160

"One thing I have noticed is that the barrel is in contact with the stock, what I mean here is that I cannot get a piece of cigarette wrapper cellophane between the barrel and the stock.... From what I have read barrels should be free from contact with the stock,.."

Barrels should alway be floated. Part of the time! Wink

Some work better floated, some don't. Only way to tell is try both, no shortcuts here.

What is ALWAYS BAD is loose or random contact and it appers that you have it. The usual admonition to slid a dollar under the barrel to check fo free-floating is silly. That's only .003" and ANY stock will bend that much according to how it's rested/held. To be floated requres that the gap is sufficent that there is no contact with differenct holds, hard and soft, etc.

Seal any raw wood under the inletting to reduce water absorbtion and resulting warping. The exposed end grain is like a sponge for water. Don't neglict sealing the checkering, stock screw holes, sling swivel holes and under the butt plate and its screws.

A small can of MInwax Marine Polyurethane can be found at Walmart, it's inexpensive, tough, both oil and water proof. I use at least four coats of lightly thinned poly as a stock sealer. Appy the first coat heavy but wipe away any surface excess after it soaks for maybe five minutes. The rest of the coats should be quite thin. Use an old toothbrush to clean finish out of the checlering after each coat there.

Pumpkinslinger

Free floating barrels can work well on heavy barrels, like varmint rifles. I tried it on two sporter weight barrels; a Ruger 77/.22 Hornet and a Win 70 Classic Featherwieght in .280. Both rifles went to he... err, heck. Both started shooting better as I added some pieces of card stock back to the barrel groove about 1" back from the end of the fore end. At this point both rifles still have the card stock in there until I have time to do it right and glass bed a contact point in the fore end.

Vince

Lester...the guys have covered in good detail the idea of floating your barrel.

Gil mentioned bedding the action. This never hurts and can only help...even if you don't float the barrel.

One thing that has not been mentioned is the mounting bolts. Check to see that they have been tightened in the correct order...makes one helluva difference on my Weatherby Vanguard...and that they are torqued to the correct tension. The correct tension, more than anything, can make a big difference to accuracy.

How do I know this? Two boxes of ammo trying to zero my .243 before my mate suggested checking the mount bolts. Mad

Of course one was tight, but not to the tension required, and I had tightened them in the wrong order as well.

Cheers, Vince

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

Factory Remingtons should be free floated with a single point a couple of inches from the end of the stock with contact with the barrel.

Lightweight sporter barrels will preform nicely with a 5-10 pound pressure caused by a build up of stock in a point to keep the whole barrel from wanting to vibrate when being shot.

Perhaps it was done improperly. But this is the reason Remington's have a "reputation" for out of the box accuracy for many years as they figured out a way to get lightweight barrels to shoot unlike other companies at the time.

Dimitri

Vince

I think you will find that there are a number of US designed rifles the same 'Mitri.

From memory I believe the Weatherby is one of those...well certainly the Vanguard anyway.

Lester, before you do anything else mate...I would be checking the mounting bolts, tightening them in the correct order and to the correct tension. You may have to check with Remington or consult the Owners Handbook for this info.

Cheers, Vince

K.W.

Like Dimitri´s Remington, my Remington 700 .30-06 Wood stock has also press point. It is good thing. Aiming to the same point at 150 meters bullets 125 and 220gr holes are only in the 2-3" groups.
Mayby somebody understand my bad language, what I am meaning? Shocked

Vince

Hi Kauko....you are meaning that you have had too much Juleøl or mjød or maybe akevitt. Laughing

Seriously though mate, your English is ok...it makes sense and is understood.

Cheers, Vince

chambered221

I’m in agreement with everyone else here !!!

The only thing that has not been clearly established is where the contact is ???
I’m assuming that your talking about a pressure point that was put in from the factory.

Pressure points in lightweight barrels are good things most of the time. But stock/barrel contact in the wrong area is bad.
The pressure point that D and others speak of is a cheap fix ( that does work ) to get a barrels harmonics to resonate on a more consistent pattern and allow them to come to a rest at the same spot. Hopefully !!!

Better quality barrels are less likely to need this trick.

shootist

Based on my experience...rifles that have difficulty grouping reasonably well have bedding problems. But here's what I would check:
1. Check the target for any signs of keyholing.
2. Check the muzzle's crown carefully using a magnifier.
3. Loosen action screws and check the stock/action for rocking.
4. Inspect the tang area of the stock for gouging.
5. Shim the front of the action to reduce or eliminate the front pressure point and range test again. Measure the amount of pressure point bump,for historical record.
6. Snug up front action screw to just firm, tap stock's butt on soft surface and snug up the front then the rear screws to torque specs or firm.
If necessary, disassemble and check every pressure/bedding point for unusual or deep compression....best suggestion is to pillar bed /glass the action /free-float the barrel.

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

Vince wrote:

I think you will find that there are a number of US designed rifles the same 'Mitri.

Yup I am sure almost any manufacturer now does it. However I have been told repeatedly by sources I trust that Remington was the first hence why I mentioned them. Smile

Dimitri

TRBLSHTR

Ihave been following this thread for a while now ,and after having done more that 50(fifty)bedding and free floating jobs on various bolt actions of all manufacture,and some(other than bolt action)I want to know if any of the "gunsmiths" here have actually fired these guns in a rapid fire game hunting type of grouping?Lets say 5 shots in 10 seconds!What I have found in the past with these factory guns with the forend in contact with the barrel and positive pressure is that the first round will always go where it is aimed,but subsequent shots fired in a short time frame will generally go higher than the point of aim.This is due to the fact that the barrel has upwared pressure on it by the stock contact and that the heating of the barrel from the quickly repeated shots tend to make the barrel deflect in the direction that the pressure on the stock is pushing.I have had rugers,remingtons,weatherby's,winchester(mod 70's),mausers,and savages that all had the forearm pushing against the barrel and after completely free floating the barrel and glass bedding the action and the chamber area found that these guns would actually group in rapid fire hunting type scenarios,on paper!These guns for the most part have all been light wieght tapered barrel sporter models. The only situation that I have found that if a gun would not group after free floating and glass bedding would not group (with the right load)is when the barrel has been damaged from the factory,or from sombody having a hunting mishap and replacing the stock only to find out that they bent or "dented" the barrel.At that point simply replace the barrel.....my nickels worth! Laughing