True enough mate...true enough.

Cheers, Vince

I have used a hologram sight on an auto S&W pistol and it shook it apart. I got some parts from the manufacturer and made it solid with no adjustment, but no way it can change after a shot either. That's one reason I need a shotgun with a way to mount one. I'm very pleased with the response I have gotten so far with all the years of experience behind it. I think I'll stay with a rifled barrel just because I can go both ways, the 18 1.2 inch barrel because it's lighter for my girl friend plus easier to carry through the brush, and the one I was looking at has a rail to mount my sight on it. And, if it doesn't work the way I like it, I can put a smooth barrel on it later.

Vince wrote:

slimjim wrote: iowafarmboy wrote: Got a nice buck ... He was really hauling the mail left to right at about 65 yards through sparsely scattered Christmas sized pine trees. This situation screams "red-dot" and both eyes open! Can't agree more Slim...the ideal situation for a good quality Red Dot or Hologram sight. I have even tried one on my Mod 94 30.30 lever gun. Cheers, Vince

Call me a traditionalist but I just can't seem to understand why no one thinks a good low power scope isn't good enough !!!

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, the hologram sights are about as close as you can get in Iowa to a laser sight, which is illegal to hunt with. I'm in brush and trees. I shoot a 1,500 fps slug. I see a deer running flat out at 40 mph at 75 yards. You lead about 9 feet. Trying to get the deer in the scope while leading 9 feet is past my pay scale.

But looking with both eyes wide open and putting the red dot (or whatever shape you select) 9 feet ahead of the deer with these sights is not a problem. And since both eyes are open, you can see the entire area, not just the tiny area the scope allows you to see. Did I mention I have bifocals? another problem with a scope. Now hunting from a blind, and getting a deer in the scope that is walking slowly or not moving at all is a different story.

For me, deciding in a split second how far away and how fast the deer is running is the trick, 40 mph works for me if the deer is in panic mode, although I've seen them run faster yet in an open field being pursued by a vehicle. There is 3 feet difference in the lead between 50 and 75 yards, That's whats tough for me... the distance to the target.

chambered221 wrote:

Call me a traditionalist but I just can't seem to understand why no one thinks a good low power scope isn't good enough !!!

For a close in moving target, two-eyes-open with a 1x or red-dot provides more situational awareness and faster aiming than looking through even a low-power scope. Many 3-gun shooters are switching to 1-4x scopes with true one-power so they can shoot two-eyes-open in the close-quarters action shooting. Then set the magnification to 4x to have enough power to shoot accurately at the longer ranges. We have a local Carbine Action Match the first Saturday of the month. I use a 1.5x but am going to switch to a 1-4x so I get a true two-eye-open sight-picture. I can acquire my first target with both eyes but once I start sighting with my right eye through the scope the left eye drops out due to the magnification difference. We typically have 10 to 20 targets per stage so I want to have quicker target acquition.

I've seen pictures from our gun club and I see the same thing you are talking about. Just doesn't work for me. I probably don't shoot nearly enough. Most of my experience with holographic displays was the HUD's for aircraft. They are a lot more complex but use the same basic design. My eyes just naturally 'work' with them.

With my glasses I have a problem just getting lined up with the scope and occasionally get nailed by it from the recoil, especially from my muzzleloader. And the scope is made for a muzzleloader, an inch or two more distance from the scope.

Farmboy...give some thought to visiting a "shooting friendly" Optometrist. I have one nearby out here who is a pistol shooter and he does his level best to accommodate an aging shooters eye problems. He can't solve the problems, but he can help by grinding a pair of shooting glasses.

I too wear bifocals, and I find that I can use the scope and shoot without wearing my "eye crutches". However, I need to put them back on to see properly when not using the scope.

Cheers, Vince

You have a point about the glasses. I play a lot of golf during our short summer. and after I got new glasses my handicap went up. But on the other hand, a few years ago I tried a separate set of glasses made by an expert golfer / optometrist and they did little or no good. I could see the ball at "address" a lot better, but couldn't see where the ball went :-)

Eat more carrots!!!

I don't have any vision troubles......yet, so I guess you might have something there I just don't understand.........I get the feeling the near future may be different though !!!

Just for the record I've shot deer, turkey and even some squirrels with both eyes open with scopes set anywhere between 1-4 power. And yes some of them were on the move.
However as I've gotten older and wiser I've learned that shooting at running deer isn't the safest thing to be doing and have passed on many such shots.

Just so everyone understand I have shot guns with various types of sighting set-ups and find them to all have their own little niches that I do like. The fact of the matter is I just prefer a good scope for hunting applications.
I just wish more hunters would pick their guns up in the off season to really see what they might be capable of doing.

Chambered wrote:

I don't have any vision troubles......yet, so I guess you might have something there I just don't understand.........I get the feeling the near future may be different though !!!

Oh, it will happen Chambered. My eyes started to "go south" at age 47...I found my arms weren't long enough to read the newspaper. My Optometrist was surprised...he said that most people's eyes start to deteriorate at around 45 yrs old. Like most of the other bits and pieces that make up a hooman bean...they start to get tired and or lazy in the mid forties. It's only the very lucky ones who manage to avoid this.

No two ways about it mate...the older I get, the better I used to be.

Cheers, Vince

I'm pretty close to 64, so I have a few years on you. I don't take any shot, moving or not, before determining if this will be a clean kill. I practice out to 225 yards (level and up-hill) with a scope, and moving targets out to 100 yards. I pass on most shots of moving deer first because I can't physically see everyone in our group while the deer is still in range. Next is because too much brush and limbs between us. Lastly I'll skip because of what's behind the deer, like a road or farm buildings. Ive truthfully NEVER had a shot at a stationary deer.

I can care less if it's a buck or a doe, so if it's good shot, I take it. It's just meat on the table and one less deer to dodge driving to or from work. Not looking for a trophy.

I went searching for a 1-4x scope today to use both-eyes open. I looked at the following scopes (in alphabetical order).

Leapers UTG Accushot 1-4X28
Leatherwood 1-4x24 CMR
Millett 1-4x24 DMS
Nikon 1-4x20 M223
Trijicon 1-4x24 Accu-Point

I've seen the Weaver 1-3x20 Classic V last month.

Though all had some very interesting features, great reticles, and could be used with one eye closed, I could only use the Nikon, Trijicon, and Weaver with both eyes open. The others had too much distortion in their optics that made it difficult to use both eyes open and get a coherent image like I would naturally. The Trijicon was thee best but it also cost the most. Will study the Nikon some more to see if the added price is worth the great value of the Weaver.

how about the so called ghost ring apertures??? they are quick and are used alot in the tight stuff.

Elvis wrote:

how about the so called ghost ring apertures??? they are quick and are used alot in the tight stuff.

Quick for iron sights they are. I'll have to check them out to see if I could use them two-eyes-open. Maybe I'll get to the gunshow this weekend.