HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 252
BOT: 1
Total: 253
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Home
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Your Account
09: Home
10: Forums
11: Your Account
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Home
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Photo Albums
20: Home
21: Forums
22: Home
23: Your Account
24: Forums
25: Home
26: Your Account
27: Your Account
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Photo Albums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Home
41: Forums
42: Photo Albums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Your Account
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Home
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Home
60: Home
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Photo Albums
65: Forums
66: Home
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Home
71: Home
72: Forums
73: Home
74: Forums
75: Home
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Your Account
85: Forums
86: Your Account
87: Your Account
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Your Account
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Photo Albums
96: Forums
97: Photo Albums
98: Forums
99: Your Account
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Photo Albums
104: Photo Albums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Home
109: Forums
110: Your Account
111: Forums
112: Home
113: Photo Albums
114: Home
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Your Account
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Home
124: Your Account
125: Home
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Home
129: Home
130: Forums
131: Home
132: Home
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Home
136: Home
137: Your Account
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Photo Albums
141: Your Account
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Home
147: Forums
148: Your Account
149: Your Account
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Home
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Your Account
160: Your Account
161: News
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Home
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Photo Albums
170: Forums
171: Home
172: Photo Albums
173: Home
174: Your Account
175: Forums
176: Home
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Home
180: Forums
181: Home
182: Your Account
183: Home
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Your Account
190: Home
191: Your Account
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Home
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Home
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Your Account
208: Forums
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Photo Albums
214: Photo Albums
215: Photo Albums
216: Forums
217: Forums
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Home
223: Forums
224: Your Account
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Photo Albums
230: Home
231: Photo Albums
232: Forums
233: Home
234: Photo Albums
235: Forums
236: Home
237: Forums
238: Photo Albums
239: Photo Albums
240: Home
241: Home
242: Home
243: Your Account
244: Forums
245: Photo Albums
246: Home
247: Your Account
248: Your Account
249: Photo Albums
250: Your Account
251: Photo Albums
252: Forums
  BOT:
01: Photo Albums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

.223 for deer
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
Go to page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tlo7mm
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 15, 2010
Posts: 426
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:31 pm    Post subject: .223 for deer Reply with quote

I recently picked up a bolt gun in .223 Remington primarily because I have wanted one for some time and I don't have really any varmint rifles aside from 22lr and 17hmr. It occurred to me that my son turned 9 on the 7th and is now eligible to be involved in the Mentor Program here in Oregon. He is not a real big kid so I am not comfortable putting him behind to big of a rifle just yet, I don't particularly want to get him gun shy yet. Anyway I am going to use my .223 for him to shoot my deer this year. My dilemma is this; I am looking to a good round to deer hunt with. I am leaning towards a 60 grain Nosler Partition if I can get my hands on them but right now all I have is varmint bullets to load. Anyone have any thoughts on a good bullet to deer hunt with? hell for him i will even go with factory ammo just to use for mentoring.

_________________
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." ~ The Dalai Lama
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. - Napoleon Bonaparte
The wisdom of man never yet contrived a system of taxation that would operate with perfect equality. - Andrew Jackson
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain
Back to top
View user's profile
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 6396
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

While 223 can do the job, I am more partial to use 243 or 6 mm for deer.
Give better reach and flatter trajectory too for minimal-ish heavier recoil.

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

I have a mate that has shot fallow deer with .223 using 55gr projectiles, but in all honesty, I am not a big fan of shooting deer with the .223 because I don't believe they have enough oomph to do the job cleanly and ethically. We must be humane when hunting.

I'm with Gelan on this one...the .243 Win, or any 6mm for that matter, is a better option because of the points Gelan mentions, plus there are heavier bullets much better suited to taking deer sized critters.

A slightly heavier .243 rifle with a quality recoil pad and maybe a muzzle break and with rounds loaded properly to a suitable power level should not be too much gun for your young fella and it will be better suited to deer hunting. If you opt to go the 6mm route, take your young fella out to the range, load up some light loads (mild 55gr bullets). Work your way up to maybe 90gr bullets over a little time to allow him to get to know the .243 and get used to the recoil.

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:46 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

Deer have been taken with all manner of 22 caliber rifles. Even with varmint bullets a neck shot will drop a deer in its tracks.If you can put the round through both lungs and the heart it won't be guaranteed to drop him there but neither are any cartridges going to result in a dead right there hit. Most walk or run till the brain shuts down. You aren't likely to break through big bones so shoulder shots would likely not be the best target. A head or neck shot is what I would do with a 223.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

ahhhh hummmm excuse me here Gentlemen



img_2245.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  123.8 KB
 Viewed:  11759 Time(s)

img_2245.jpg


img_2243.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  140.07 KB
 Viewed:  11759 Time(s)

img_2243.jpg


img_2241.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  124.91 KB
 Viewed:  11759 Time(s)

img_2241.jpg


_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:04 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

MY take on .223 having shot a few deer (big reds at that) using 50 grn barnes TTSX is this...keep range under 150 yards, poke them out over 3000fps and break them shoulders or go slightly FORWARDS of them into hillar area and Bambi will drop quicksmart no fuss no bother. the damage this bullet does is opposite what you get with cup n core from larger cartridge eg you get the major damage on nearside shoulder and minor damage and exit hole on far side.
Ive taken red 2 year old at about 150 and she took 10 steps half of which were backwards.broadside above photos show side facing me.
BIG red hind at about 30 yards bangflop facing me slight angle entered neck throat and took out vitals before exiting.
70lb pig at about 180-200 2 through and through both a tad far back and she went 20ish yards before carking it.
I wouldnt hesitate to take deer with this load at this range again.
yes a 6mm and above gives more room for error but this load works and works plurry well with added bonus of less meat damage or at least no lead in mushy bits.
I went with 50 grn load to be able to get them going fast enough to open properly 24.5 grn-25grn of AR2206h works for me.
Scratch oh yeah Nathan has taken 2 with it as well one chest shot at 75ish bang flop and one barrel stretcher at 200ish (wasnt with him but cut it up only one Ive recovered projectile from) Very Happy

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

It's all about the bullet and distance !!!

Understanding what a bullet can and can't do at a given distance is the key to a successful hunt.
Too many hunters what to argue the ethics a give cartridge. The argument should be on the hunter themselves. Do they understand their limitations and the choosen equipments limitations ???

If it were me I'd use a Barnes or Barnes like bullet. Bullet weight to me is somewhat irrelevant. Just make sure it's impact velocity is within its operating range.

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2438
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

Chambered, you should also add "placement"
I don't do deer, only roedeer and I feel very comfortable with Sierra's 63 grs semi-pointed (SMP) in my .222 Rem, but I wouldn't even try bullets of 50 or 52 grs for this alltough I did use 45 grs in the .22 Hornet for fallow deer... It's all about energy-transfert at the right spot (and it's easier to hit that right spot when the distance is not too great + when you use a rifle with low recoil).
And I didn't have the opportunity to try Barnes's bullets in the .222, but I can support Chambered's vision on this (as I do use the Barnes in 7 mm)

but for tlo: such a .223 could work fine, but I would also feel comfortable with a 30/30 Win and in my opinion all boys like a lever action...
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

I consider that part of the hunter understanding their own limitations !!!

Barnes actually makes a 45gr bullet suitable for deer. Shocked

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

I have not shot a deer with a .223 but I had tested a lot of .223 bullets with the intention of hunting deer with my .223. I ended up deciding to go with a 6.8mm SPC which is another story.

There are several good bullets out there like Elvis has experienced for taking deer with a .223. The copper bullets like Barnes are a good example because they retain their weight and can penetrate though a mid-size game animal. However, they are range limited in their expansion plus, because of the wide range of twist rates in .223 (1:7 to 1:14) bullet selection becomes critical to ensure stabilization for the twist of your barrel.

tlo7mm, what is your barrel length and twist? the difference in a 16" barrel compared to a 24" barrel can be 100 yards of effective range.

Below is some expansion comparison information for monolithic bullets. Twist rate can also affect there terminal expansion as shown with the GMX bullets. The best expanding bullet I've seen that is lead core is the 62gr Federal Fusion MSR which is bonded.



.224 caliber bullet comparisons 3.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  156.58 KB
 Viewed:  11716 Time(s)

.224 caliber bullet comparisons 3.jpg


_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

here is the expansion chart. Don't bother with the 70gr GMX. It has the original expansion cavity where as the newer 55gr GMX has Hornady's 2nd generation expansion cavity. The 70 GMX needs a fast twist and a .223 can not get enough energy in the bullet to reach its expansion potential.



223 curves r1.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  84.16 KB
 Viewed:  11714 Time(s)

223 curves r1.jpg


_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


Last edited by slimjim on Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

Looks like I had the barrel twist affects on a separate chart. Besides the 2nd gen GMX, I've also see the affects of barrel twist rate on TTSX bullets. The 62gr Fusion MSR's expansion was not affected by barrel twist.



02 hornady 55 gmx expansion with twist.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  82.39 KB
 Viewed:  11713 Time(s)

02 hornady 55 gmx expansion with twist.jpg


_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

Found some of the testing on the 62gr MSR. This was a 200 yard shot with a 24" barrel. The Nosler 64gr Bonded Performance Bullet expands nicely in close but expansion drops off rapidly as kinetic energy drops. This bullet actually tumbled after impact because it didn't shorten enough or expand to a large enough diameter. The 62gr MSR is pretty impressive for an off the shelf production round. I think I bought a couple hundred to have on had for further hunting needs.



62 msr vs 64 bpb bullet expansion r1.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  98.11 KB
 Viewed:  11705 Time(s)

62 msr vs 64 bpb bullet expansion r1.jpg


_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

that 64grn BPB down to 2105 looks like the barnes we pulled from Nathans barrel stretcher.
GS custom also do a 40-45grn copper jobbie suitable for deer and I know of one well known writer who shoots a hell of a lot of deer and has shot more than most of us have seen (ex meat hunter) uses a .22-250 who swears by the GS, light and going really fast for same reasons of expansion plus bonus of copper jobbies penetration you need a 40-45 grn to get it to stabilise in older slow twist barrels like .22-250 and if you think about it your 40grn that penetrates and exits is similar to a 80 in .243 that gets down to that weight before exiting/resting on skin anyway as both have travelled same amount of tissue.

there are two ways to use .223 on deer
a barnes or indeed your partition and chest shoot
or a varmint type going really fast and head/upper neck shoot aiming for decapitation.
personally I prefer the chest option as head/neck is harder to Guarantee

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2438
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: .223 for deer Reply with quote

Elvis, when you still can find Sierra's 63 grs SMP overthere, just get them and try them. I've been told that Sierra no longer produces that bullet, so I bought here what I could find and I'm careful not to waste them. Yesterday-evening I used one: 1 bullet for a (rather big) young female roedeer at somewhat more than 100 m, I was surprised that she still could run but only for about 20 m... 1 small hole on both sides of the chest and after opening I saw the bullet hit the heart. Empty weight 13,36 kg and no meat wasted. I love that 63 grs SMP Sierra in my .222...
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.