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A new project
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
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Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:37 am    Post subject: A new project Reply with quote

I decided to take on a new project during the COVID lockdown. I have a SxS 12g that, as best I can find, is around 130-150 years old. It has Damascus barrels and is proofed for black powder only. So, I thought, it could do with a “tidy up”, but not a full restoration. A full resto would mean new wood all round and as the current factory wood is in fair to reasonable condition, although it is stained dark from oil saturation, I thought...keep it original. I gave the wood a bit of a sand and then recut the chequering. The barrels are in good condition as best I can tell without a borescope (one is in the works), but the action is quite loose because the hinge pin is worn...some brass shim material tightened things up ok. A new pin would be ideal, but they are no longer available. I thought about building it up with weld, but I don’t have access to a lathe, also the recess in the barrel lump that fits into the hinge pin is out of round as well. I have some ideas floating around the back of my mind to correct these problems.

Also, I am missing the left hand hammer. I tried all of the local gun shops hoping to find one that is similar, but to no avail. Solution...try to make one. I had a piece of steel flat bar about 2.5” x 2.5” under my bench, so I decided to have a go. Marking and cutting out the basic shape was easy enough, and apart from one spot, the thickness of the metal piece was good. I roughed out the shape then with files I cleaned up the shape enough to heat the metal and put a bend and then a twist into it to get the “final” basic shape so I could start the final shaping using files and my Dremel. I bought a set of carbide burrs from eBay (they are really made of Chinesium) and got into it today in earnest. I had to put some weld on either side of the hammer head so I could round it out and then managed to get a lot of the shaping done before it got dark.

I’ll continue with the shaping as time permits, and will hopefully have it finished in a week or so. After I have finished the hammer I intend to sit down and put a lot of thought into how I can fix the lump and hinge pin. I’m not a good enough welder to put some weld onto it and I don’t have the necessary machine to cut it to the correct size and shape.

Who knows, I might even knock up some 2 1/2” BP loads and see how it shoots when I’m finished.

I also have a muzzle loader 12g that was manufactured around 1851 that could do with a clean up as well.



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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:56 am    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

once you go black...
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PaulS
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Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 3980
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

The next job should be to make a new black powder gun Lock, stock and barrel!
You have a great start on that hammer! Are you going to heat treat it? I have a formula somewhere for browning steel that I used to give a Colt Combat Commander a "parkerized" finish if you are interested.

You have more courage than I, loading rounds to fire that old girl. I had a 10 Ga. that I wanted to have fixed and I was told it was a fine wall hanger but it would be unsafe to fire even black powder loads through the Damascus barrels. I gave it to the gunsmith for the $5 I had into it. He was happy and I had a new friend to work on my guns.

Don't you ever do anything easy? Smile

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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

Gidday Paul. I don’t think I would try to make one from scratch, unless it was a kit gun...hmmm...that’s got me thinking.

The hammer has taken a lot of work, but it’s been enjoyable work. The rest of the gun is blued, so that is probably what I’ll end up doing with the hammer. That bloody hinge pin and associated recess in the lump has me racking my brain though. I might have to seek professional assistance.

The barrels, even though Damascus, are very solid, so mild BP loads shouldn’t be a problem. There is no way I would fire the muzzle loader though, the barrels are very thin at the muzzle.

Me, do anything easy...where would the fun be in that mate. Razz Razz I had to do something during this lockdown...no doubt it is only psychological, but I am starting to go stir crazy.

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:56 pm    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

50 quid to a knob of goat turds,you will find file of correct size to re hone that female curve if you added a little weld to build it up......what about braize?????

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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

Yep, you are no doubt right Elvis, but I lack a mill and the equipment to set up to do a milling job. Also the hinge pin would need to be machined on a lathe, which again I don’t have.

Did I mention that my welding skills are pretty ordinary and certainly not good enough to add a little weld. I suppose I could try to add some weld...I have a gas less MIG and a stick arc welder...but I don’t have an oxy acetylene capability. I thought about silver solder, but I don’t believe that it would be hard enough to offer a quality fix.

I’ll get there in one way or another...one day.

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

well I wont derail your thread but will try to post link to a clever chap over here (who made my .45/70 barrel) his adaptability and downright cando attitute is a thing of beauty
www.nzhuntingandshooti...the-59988/
Scratch Scratch Scratch think Vince added the next bit Scratch
Not derailing mate. That guy is not clever...he’s beyond that...he’s a wizard. I wish I had the ma Hubert and his knowledge...this resto would be a breeze.

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Last edited by Elvis on Wed May 06, 2020 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

Vince, If you weren't half a world away I would do the turning for you. I am sure my lathe and I are up to it. I am willing anyway but I think postage would get in the way even if we were able to by-pass the whole gun part import into Australia. Deal Thumbs Down

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Paul
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So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

A stick welder using 7018 rod would be about the right stuff for that curve fix but it is not easy to file a weld back into shape and you woul need to clean up the sides to match the rest of that plate.

How is that plate attached to the rest of the gun? Can you just make a new piece? and then reattach? I doubt that would be any easier...

I like solving problems and the way to do it is to think outside the box.

Is there room to make that worn part accept a larger pin or would the larger pin not fit in the gun?

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Paul
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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

Your offer of machining is terrific and much appreciated mate, but as you so rightly point out...postage and import/export problems make it pretty much impossible.

I’m not sure what welding rods I have there at the moment. I know they are CIG, one is Satincraft and the other Speed Weld (I think). The Satincraft is very nice to weld with and makes for a nice smooth weld, but I’m unsure if the grade of the stick...I’ll have to check.

I’m not sure how the lump is fitted to the barrels...often they are only lead soldered, so I have to be careful with heat. Also, the actual chambers are often only soldered to the barrels...again a heat issue. I thought about taking the chambers and lump off the barrels, but then there is the big problem of realigning and registering the barrels again.

There is a bit of room to fit a larger hinge pin, but the current pin is nicely engraved in the ends and I can’t replicate that. The wear on the pin is less than 20 thou, so I thought about silver soldering the wear spot, but as the pin is easily removed, welding would be better...but then it will require machining. I may be able to do something there with a file and drill press and careful measuring.

I’m doing as you say...thinking outside the square...so I should be able to get it done eventually. It’s not a “fix it tomorrow” type of project, so time isn’t an issue.

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Illegitimi non carborundum
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Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

ok throw shit at me for even suggesting this......what happens if you put a shim...say cut out of coke can between the two???? does it take up enough slack/play......what about a slightly thicker shim???bean can..... even trying it will give you some idea of what you are up against / how much play you need to get rid of...you might find a shim like a roller pin does the job with little fuss.......worth a crack Nigel...

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
ok throw shit at me for even suggesting this......what happens if you put a shim...say cut out of coke can between the two???? does it take up enough slack/play......what about a slightly thicker shim???bean can..... even trying it will give you some idea of what you are up against / how much play you need to get rid of...you might find a shim like a roller pin does the job with little fuss.......worth a crack Nigel...

I’ve already done that mate...put a piece of brass shim metal in place and it tightened up the action quite nicely. Unfortunately what it didn’t do is take up all the wear in the lump...the recess for the hinge pin is still out of round with a gap at either end of the recess when the action is closed. It seems that the shim metal is only acting on the centre of the recess...I still need to get some weld into it to allow for reshaping. I’ll get there.

I finished the hammer yesterday...it looks pretty reasonable considering the shaping I had to do. There are some grooves on the hammer that I am assuming are only cosmetic but I cut them in so at least the look similar. I’ve also blued it, so it looks good. I only wish I was able to copy the minute engraving on the RH hammer, but that is way beyond my abilities and tooling available.



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Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

Vince,
You do good work and I am impressed. I am confident that you will succeed. All the best...
Gil

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

Very nice Vince...Very nice indeed.

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pete4d
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: A new project Reply with quote

Looking good,,,,, try the MIG welding and file off what doesn't look right . Cheers

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