Holding a group with BP

vint2 · Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: Holding a group with BP

I am wondering how many of us who shoot bp guns can hold a 2-3 inch group at 100yds from the first shot fired with a clean barrel????? AND, what do you use to do it???? Smile

roklok · Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

From a bench? My .40 and .54 flintlocks will both do that. Both have Green Mountain barrels with round ball twist. Stoked with Goex 3F and swaged round balls (Speer in .54, Hornady in .40) they will shoot tight groups out to 100 yards or so, the limiting factor being the iron sights on both. Wait a minute, I just read your post again, including first shot from clean barrel? Dont know, I never hunt with a clean barrel and I never include a clean barrel shot in my target work. I always fire a fouling shot to enhance reliability and ignition time with flintlock before I get serious.

hunterjoe21 · Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

vint2 wrote:

I am wondering how many of us who shoot bp guns can hold a 2-3 inch group at 100yds from the first shot fired with a clean barrel????? AND, what do you use to do it???? Smile

Are you still having problems with your in-line?

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

2-3" off the bench is commonplace for me. I use 8" 50 yard rimfire NRA targets, they are large enough you can easily see them around the front post, and you can take a fine bead by putting the top of the front bead on the center of the target. Dont obscure the entire bullseye with the front post.

All of this of course assumes you are shooting powder / projectiles that your gun likes. Unlike roklok however, I do shoot with a perfectly clean barrel.

My best ever groups are sub .6" @ 100 yards. I dont do it very often though... LOL

-DallanC

vint2 · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

I have had 2 at .6 with a flyer out an inch, so am checking out some things I have read that don't seem to prove out on the bench. I can't seem to get away from the fliers and wonder if I was sold a bill of goods. My scoped Wolf is fine since I put loctite on the mounting screws. My shooting calls for a spit patch between every shot. With my other bp guns I was real happy with a 1.5" group at 100 yds, but figured inlines were supposed to do better!
vint2

SwampFox · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

If you want to elininate your fliers, try cleaning the bore before you shoot and between each shot. Years ago I used to shoot with a group of national champion BP shooters. When I first met them, at the Ned Roberts Shoot, they laughed at my feeble attemps at accuracy. I re-learned BP shooting.

This is one trick I learned: Use rubbling alcohol on a T shirt material swab to clean the bore. Scrub the bore with the dripping wet swab before shooting and between every shot. The bore dries instantly, even if the bore is wet the powder will not be contaminated. Smile

Ed

ElyBoy · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

Happy New Year Vint!!!

As you guys know, I'm new to BP.
Minnesota's law on Black Powder hunting states that we can only use open sights on our Muzzleloaders.
You guys have all the fun. Sad

I can't even SEE 100yds without a scope, much less try to shoot that far.
However, next spring, I think that I will have to fit my Knight with a scope just to see how well it shoots at longer ranges.
I might even forget to take it off during hunting season. Very Happy

Eric

vint2 · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

I had not heard of the alcohol bit before, so will give it a try!
Eric, I could not see the rear sight on my peep site, so if no scopes were allowed I would not be able to hunt bp!! Iowa has outlawed the Savage and electronic ignition, but all else is legal, as far as I know.!!!!:)

ElyBoy · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

I didn't know that you lived in Iowa Vint.
We will have to get together some day for shooting or some hunting.
Iowa is a close drive for me.
When Ben was in Baseball, most of his Tournaments were either in Iowa, or we had to drive through Iowa to get to a Tourney.

Eric

vint2 · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

Hey,Eric, that can work!!! I hunt, fish, target shoot, and stumble around the trap range!! Let,s do some email,ok? Very Happy

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

I use patches slightly damp with windex for swabbing, or very wet windex patches when cleaning. I've tried alot of cleaners but Windex tops them all IMO. Smells ok so that my wife doesnt even complain when I clean my gun on the kitchen table Very Happy

vint2, you really want to go down the accuracy road, you have to tell us what components you are using, projectile... powder, cap. Also what twist is your barrel?

-DallanC

vint2 · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

I am using 120 gr 777 powder,CCI 400 small rifle primers and TC cheap shot sabots at 240 gr in a 1:28 twist. Smile

bushwhacker · Rookie Member Joined: Dec 28, 2007 Posts: 1

I don't see whether you are using pellets or loose powder, but 120 grains of loose is to much of a charge. I have a CVA Optima Pro 50 cal. and the book calls for a max charge of 150 in pellets or 100 in loose powder. I called the Pyrodex folks and they said that the loose was a hotter charge. This may not be the same for 777 but it wouldn't hurt to check into it further as it is also a blackpowder substitute like Pyrodex.

vint2 · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

I am using loose powder and my book calls for a max charge of 150 gr.
Don't know if Pyrodex data can be used with Triple 7, but I do know I had very little accuracy until I got to 100-120 gr. Could be I need a lighter load and a different bullet but don't think I will change in the middle of hunting. Smile

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

Ok you are using sabots. Your next step from here needs to be walking down range and finding the spent sabots. You need to closely inspect them for tears, burn marks along the sides etc etc. Properly shot sabots should look good enough they could be reshot. They should have no tears or rips along the petals or cup. Also they should appear shiny and slick along the sides, if they arent they are getting too much friction and melting... uneven melting can cause your fliers.

Are the sabots for a .429 cal bullet or .451? (ie: 44 cal vs 45 cal).

Finally I absolutely could not get 777 to shoot worth a crap (5-6" @100... some groups didnt even hit paper!), I tried and tried burning up almost an entire bottle trying to get it to shoot. I finally gave up and went back to Pyro RS and immediatly shot a 2" group.

Some thoughts. Using RS as a baseline, 777 is much hotter than RS, i dont know how much hotter or its burn rate as I gave up testing with 777. Pyrodex P is a finer grain powder and will ignite and shoot cleaner and it has a faster burn rate than RS due to smaller granule size, but its 10% hotter so loads must be reduced accordingly.

So you can mess with changing the burn rate between pyro RS and P, as well as the charge amount to fine tune your smokepole.

-DallanC