HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: Petert
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12717

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 67
BOT: 2
Total: 69
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Albums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Photo Albums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Photo Albums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Photo Albums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Home
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Photo Albums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Photo Albums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Home
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Photo Albums
35: Your Account
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: News
52: Forums
53: Photo Albums
54: News
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Your Account
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
  BOT:
01: Your Account
02: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 305
 Pictures: 2371
  · Views: 541455
  · Votes: 1312
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

Signs of a loose primer pocket?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
twofifty
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 158
Location: BC Rockies

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

I've taken to throwing away brass into which a new primer seats too easily. I use the Lee Auto-Prime unit; whenever a primer presses into place with little effort, that brass gets turfed right away.

As you know, I am new to reloading. This procedure may be too cautious, but seems like a reasonable way to prevent gasses from blowing past the primer and damaging the bolt face or worse.

How do you guys decide that a primer pocket is oversized?
Back to top
View user's profile
shadowdrak
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

New to reloading myself and this is a pretty interesting question about loose primer seating. Does use of the Lee Ram Prime work better than say the prime seater that RCBS has (does one seat the primer better than the other? Does the Lee Auto Prime II consist of the Ram Prime and the primer feeder?
Back to top
View user's profile
twofifty
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 158
Location: BC Rockies

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

From what I've gathered from the 'net, most folk use hand-held priming devices rather than priming at the press. Definitely more convenient, some say you get a better 'feel' that way. Don't know how popular the RCBS strip-priming device is (the one that uses CCI primers loaded into plastic strips).

Speaking of feel, apparently primers give best and most consistent ignition when they are firmly seated into their pocket. Not crushed in, but a tight bottomed-out feel. This is supposed to push the primer cup into contact with the primer pocket bottom - this way the primer will not shift forward when the firing pin hits it.

As to seating depth, my primers often end up seated 3 to 5 thou deeper than what is considered 'normal'. I don't worry about that since ignition has never failed with the Win brass and WLR primers I use. It is said that for safety, the primer never be seated less than flush with the cartridge base.

Back to the subject at hand. Whatever you use to seat primers, after awhile, you'll come to know how much resistance to expect when pressing in a primer. When a new primer goes in with great ease, I take that as a sign that the pocket has stretched beyond safe tolerances.

To ensure that the felt resistance I get when using the Lee Auto-Prime is consistent, my case prep includes: using the Lee primer pocket cleaner thingy to scrape out carbon residue/ignition grit. Since I do not tumble clean brass, I also give the pockets a quick twist with 99% USP Isopropyl Alcohol on an ear swab. This leaves the pocket carbon and grit-free.

Shadowdrak, have you run into loose primer pockets? Mine seem to be occuring after the 4th or 5th firing.

Let's see what the others have to say about this.
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10696
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

O K guys... One of the neat things about the Lee Auto Prime II is that if you have a primer that seats too easy the Auto Prime II can still seat that loose primer just a bit to spread it. I'm cheap so I hate to toss a case with a worn primer pocket and a new primer so I relegate it to range use so as not to loose that one primer then toss the case. As long as the primer will not 'bump' out it will be safe enough to use as range brass that one time. I would not take it to the field however...

All my primers are seated a few thousands below the case head. Not sure where you read that, but I was taught that they must be seated just under flush with the case head. I guess all of my primers are not seated "normal"...

Most often the reason for loose or worn primer pockets is cheap brass or loading the case to maximum levels. Most firearms shoot better and have less wear and tear on them with moderate or less powder charges. A lot shoot much more accuratly with lower then maximum powder charges.

By The Way...Not everyone uses a hand priming tool...



113 single stage up grade (small).jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  72.45 KB
 Viewed:  6185 Time(s)

113  single stage up grade (small).jpg


_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
twofifty
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 158
Location: BC Rockies

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
O K guys... One of the neat things about the Lee Auto Prime II is that if you have a primer that seats too easy the Auto Prime II can still seat that loose primer just a bit to spread it.

... I'm cheap so I hate to toss a case with a worn primer pocket and a new primer so I relegate it to range use so as not to loose that one primer then toss the case. As long as the primer will not 'bump' out it will be safe enough to use as range brass that one time. I would not take it to the field however...

All my primers are seated a few thousands below the case head. Not sure where you read that, but I was taught that they must be seated just under flush with the case head.

By The Way...Not everyone uses a hand priming tool...

I was tempted to do that, but I figured I'd end up losing track of that case, only to stumble onto it again the next time 'round after pushing a new primer into it. Primers cost a few pennies, and gaining one more firing from a case is not worth much to cheap old me.

I saw that pic of your new Lee Classic Cast with the AutoPrimeII setup. Must be nice. Did you shorten the handle stroke much on yours? Mine is shortened by a good 2.5".

The seated depth info I have is from Lyman's 48th Ed., p. 57, where it is said that "Most primers should be seated 0.003: to 0.005" below flush. If the reloader endeavors to seat primers at a nominal depth of 0.004" below flush, normal variations found in primer heights and primer pockets will generally result in seating depths within the suggested tolerance."

Some of mine end up seated .007 to .008" and yet it all works fine: no failures to fire, no pierced primers, no carbon seepage. To check for proper seating, I drag each case out of the AutoPrime's shellholder which gives me tactile info that the primer is at the very least flushed up.
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10696
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Loose track of the cases with loose or warn primer pockets? Don't you have a felt pen or "Sharpy" on your loading bench? Just mark the case head...

No...I left mine full stroke so I won't have to strain (I'm naturally lazy) to resize .30-06 cases...

O K...Lyman's 48th is one of the best manuals out there and reasonably priced. You had mentioned above that you concidered flush with the case head as"normal". As you have just quoted, no it's not...

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
twofifty
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 158
Location: BC Rockies

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
Loose track of the cases with loose or warn primer pockets? Don't you have a felt pen or "Sharpy" on your loading bench? Just mark the case head...

O K...Lyman's 48th is one of the best manuals out there and reasonably priced. You had mentioned above that you concidered flush with the case head as"normal". As you have just quoted, no it's not...


Bushy, I am sorry but I do not consider that flush primers are normal, nor did I state that they are. Please re-read what I actually said in my post:

"As to seating depth, my primers often end up seated 3 to 5 thou deeper than what is considered 'normal'. I don't worry about that since ignition has never failed with the Win brass and WLR primers I use. It is said that for safety, the primer never be seated less than flush with the cartridge base."

Then I quoted Lyman's:
"Most primers should be seated 0.003" to 0.005" below flush."

Then I finished with:
" Some of mine end up seated .007 to .008" and yet it all works fine."
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10696
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Yup...That's how I read it..You mentioned"normal" And I took that as being flush with the case head. You can seat them deep enough that the firing pin won't reach the primer with enough force to set it off too.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 14010
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

I use a single stage press, not a hand primer, and usually feel two small "bumps" as I seat a primer. If I don't feel those "bumps" I check out the primer. If it is fully seated then I assume that the pocket is starting to stretch a bit. These cases get assigned to plinking duty.

A stretched primer pocket is a very rare occurrence for me as, like Bushy said, don't load to max...something I don't do because of the reduced wear and tear on the cases, and frankly I get better accuracy with the reduced load.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
SwampFox
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 15, 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: Destin, Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Many folks make the mistake of using brass past its accuracy stage of life. Brass does and will fail. The hotter the load the shorter the life span of brass.

However, when brass starts to "give up the ghost" it is time to S can the entire bunch. You should be following the normal process of segregating your fired brass and keeping it together by the number of times fired. If you are not over pressure and the brass shows fatigue, enlarged pockets, no elasticity at the neck, split necks, web ring, head seperation, etc. The entire bunch should go to the scrap dealer.

Brass is cheap compared to the entire reloading process and not using good condition, fully preped brass is without excuse. You should not reload to make average ammo, you can buy average ammo at any store.

Every accuracy load is different. Some loads are only accurate at max pressure, density and velocity. Other loads are very accurate mid way of the start to max scale. Judge where you are on that scale, yourself, after awhile you will get a feel for brass lifespan.

Not saying much more than Vince or Bushy, just saying it a bit differently.
Best,
Ed

_________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-Winston Churchill
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10696
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Swampy is right. I,also, keep a running log on the number of times I have loaded, trimmed, powder and amount, bullet and primer...If I have 5% damaged cases in a specified group of cases (50 ea handgun and 20 ea rifle) that particular set is in the recycle can...Otherwise I replace the one or two cases with a fresh one and keep going. This has worked for me. But you must remember. I inspect all my cases at least 7 times before the bullet is mounted onto the case mouth prior to seating and an eighth time after the bullet has been seated....

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 4554
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

While experimenting with some 180 grain bullets for the .357 Magnum, and using previously fired cases, I noticed that some of the primers in the batch seated a bit too easily. After I seated a bullet I had a little trouble getting one of the rounds out of the shell holder. Sure enough, the air compressed in the case had pushed the primer part way back out of the pocket! That batch of brass was thrown away. Those were nickeled cases, which seem to me to have a much shorter life than plain brass.

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anyone else, and there ain't no one better than me!" Ma Kettle

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
twofifty
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 158
Location: BC Rockies

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Vince and Bushy, your culling procedure involves relegating brass to plinking or range duty when a particular case too easily accepts a primer.

I don't see that from a safety standpoint, there is any difference between firing a tired case while hunting as opposed to firing it while plinking or punching paper. Surely a case's residual integrity is not dependant on whether it is being fired at game or at paper. Determining the remaining strength of a case is an inexact process no matter how good one's notetaking and case marking.

Presumably then, your plinking or range cases are loaded to lower pressures than your hunting loads?

My loads run somewhere in the middle third in terms of powder grains and therefore, presumably, pressures. My next batch of brass will be neck sized with occasional partial FL sizing, as opposed to a FL regime, to minimize overworking the body & lengthen case life.
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 14010
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

twofifty wrote:
Vince and Bushy, your culling procedure involves relegating brass to plinking or range duty when a particular case too easily accepts a primer.

I don't see that from a safety standpoint, there is any difference between firing a tired case while hunting as opposed to firing it while plinking or punching paper. Surely a case's residual integrity is not dependant on whether it is being fired at game or at paper. Determining the remaining strength of a case is an inexact process no matter how good one's notetaking and case marking.

Presumably then, your plinking or range cases are loaded to lower pressures than your hunting loads?

I can't speak for Bushy, but first up...to the question on whether or not my range loads are loaded to a lower pressure than my field loads, no, exactly the same load. After the dodgy round has been used, the case then goes into my "buggery" box. When I have sufficient scrap in there to make the trip worthwhile it all goes to the scrap metal yard.

I keep a running record of every time I load a case and whilst I don't work to a percentage loss like Bushy does, when I feel that the cases have done their best work I inspect them all and dispose of them if they have had it.

I intend buying a LEE Collet Neck Sizing die in an attempt to lengthen the life of my cases.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 3733
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:06 am    Post subject: Re: Signs of a loose primer pocket? Reply with quote

Record keeping is key to knowing your ammo and the condition it is in.
I haven't had a loose primer pocket for close to thirty years. Some of my cases have been loaded 20 times. I found out a long time ago that those "hot" loads were hard on brass, my gun and me. I would rather shoot the "X" out of the bull then have a couple of hundred more feet covered each second. Hunting and target shooting both require more accuracy than velocity. The guys who have loose primers after firing the brass 3 or 5 times are shooting loads that are too hot for their guns. If you can't get at least 10 loadings from a single brass then you need to drop the powder level.
My opinion - yours may be different and you are free to express it - just don't try to change mine. I am too old and stubborn to listen to some young'n tell me how to load ammo.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.