And Russia is our friend?

Duce · Member Joined: Mar 01, 2008 Posts: 124 Location: Kentucky

I just spoke with my oldest son today and he told me about the new Taliban tank, its a Russian made T-90, freshly manufactured off the line from Russia and new to the scrap pile thanks to American troops.

Vince · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: And Russia is our friend?

Duce...I think that you will find that Arms Dealers buy from the Russian Defence Industries; these Arms Dealers then in turn sell to anybody who has the $s to buy. They don't care one way or the other who their customer is...only how much money they can make from the transaction.

Another possibility is that the tank was stolen/liberated from one of the "old" Eastern Bloc countries or even Russia itself. I would be very surprised to find that Russia actually sold it directly to the Taliban.

Cheers, Vince

Handloader · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: And Russia is our friend?

A tad off subject for the thread, but, these observations. Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, precipitated mainly by the USA driving the cost of defense their society to the brink and creating an artificially low oil price further reducing their revenues, Russia dabbled with some disperate forms of governing in which former KGB officers emerged with power, the most high profile being Putin himself.

Putin has been astute in the administration and centralization of power. Ruthless, too. Weapon, technology, oil and natural gas profits have all but eliminated national debt and allowed the creation of rule by an oligarchy whose main purpose is to advance and preserve power. Military buildup and destabilization of western leaning countries is part of the program. Georgia is but the beginning of Russia trying to flex its political and military muscle. The Ukrane, Poland and Finland are certain to be on the "hit" list. Chapter Two of the Cold War is now being written.

Salient to this: who would you prefer in the White House to deal with Russia? Yes, this is a critical election. Very critical.

Duce · Member Joined: Mar 01, 2008 Posts: 124 Location: Kentucky

My thoughts are not who they bought them from but how did they get the money and how to stop them from getting the money. I know from my sons that there ammo comes from China.

Handloader · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: And Russia is our friend?

Financing comes from various sources. Oil profits is principal and much of that comes from the USofA. China has amassed billions of dollars of US debt along with Russia that could be used to totally destablize the dollar. Financing the Taliban is but a part of the whole effort with the goal not so much of destroying our country, but, to render us incapable of challenging their world vision. Part of Russia's national paranoia is being surrounded by powers that would limit or challenge them. That paranoia fuels much of the nationalism developing, or more exactly, re-emerging.

Nobama.

Handloader · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: And Russia is our friend?

A tad off subject for the thread, but, these observations. Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, precipitated mainly by the USA driving the cost of defense their society to the brink and creating an artificially low oil price further reducing their revenues, Russia dabbled with some disperate forms of governing in which former KGB officers emerged with power, the most high profile being Putin himself.

Putin has been astute in the administration and centralization of power. Ruthless, too. Oil and natural gas profits have all but eliminated national debt and allowed the creation of rule by an oligarchy whose main purpose is to advance and preserve power. Georgia is but the beginning of Russia trying to flex its political and military muscle. The Ukrane, Poland and Finland are certain to be on the "hit" list. Chapter Two of the Cold War is now being written.

Salient to this: who would you prefer in the White House to deal with Russia? Yes, this is a critical election.

gelandangan · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: Re: And Russia is our friend?

I heard that the main source of income of the Taliban was the sale of Opium.

I totally understand that the ammo came from China, heck, I coulda bought a tank or a helicopter gunship if I wanted to while I was there.

China is definitely the most capitalist "communist country" I know of, they are even more capitalist than the capitalist Australia ..
Or you could look at it the other way around, Australia is communist socialist country disguised as a capitalist, and China is a BIG capitalist disguised as communist country Very Happy

No dole bludger there for sure.. no work no feed!! No pay no school!! no money no doctor!! so there..

Duce · Member Joined: Mar 01, 2008 Posts: 124 Location: Kentucky

I think my son was even telling me about the 3 tanks was because he said they where really easy to destroy.

WileyWapiti · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: And Russia is our friend?

Not familiar with the T-90's - I know we destroyed many, many T-72's in the first gulf war - kind of like blowing up pop cans - their projectiles rarely made more than a powder mark on our's.

Putin is a scary bastard - not sure where this Russia deal will take us. I have read that Putin has been in cahoots with big oil in his area and has vestment in several organizations to pad his own pockets once the oil starts flowing. when they were battling Chechnya - he gave standing orders to dispatch any male over the age of 12 - take it for what it is worth since it was from a book and I prefer the Author's version.

Here is the book, some of you may find it interesting: "Another Look into Putin's Soul" by Andrei Piontkovsky

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

A T-90 is a renamed T-72BM (T-72 with T-80 armament). They only named it differently to make themselves feel better and act like they got a better tank cause of how easy it was to kill the T-72s in the Gulf War. North Korea, India and Syria have them so take your pick if you want to believe the Russians are selling them directly or indirectly.

Netheir the Russians or the Chinese are a threat to the free world. That is if we'd grow a back bone and tell the Chinese we will default on our debts if they don't fall inline with will do more economic damage to them then it will do to us.

As for the Russians if we simply moved into Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Georgia, and our other ALLIES who WANT us there to keep the Russians in check, instead of just talk about it. And shut off the Russian gas lines to let them know who is boss the Russians will think twice about all this.

Thats right to any Left Wing, Pro-Russia, Anti-US and Anti-Western people who may read this, the former Communist Block countries KNOW what Russia means and knows what comes with that. Russia has never been the "poor innocent" country they'd like us to think they are. The USSR MURDERED over 60 million PEOPLE in the "Union" from 1917 to 1987. To put it in perspective for you, that is 12 million less then all of the deaths in World War 2 combined or over 850,000 people a year.

My 2 cents.

Dimitri

twofifty · Last edited by twofifty on Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

Vince wrote:

Duce...I think that you will find that Arms Dealers buy from the Russian Defence Industries; these Arms Dealers then in turn sell to anybody who has the $s to buy. They don't care one way or the other who their customer is...only how much money they can make from the transaction.

Another possibility is that the tank was stolen/liberated from one of the "old" Eastern Bloc countries or even Russia itself. I would be very surprised to find that Russia actually sold it directly to the Taliban.

Cheers, Vince

Research published in the 1970s book "The Arms Business" showed that for instance, Canada was then the world's 18th (or so) largest arms and munitions supplier. Nothing on the scale of Russia-USA-China-UK-Israel-South Africa-Germany-France, but still that's a lot of weaponry to prop up a regime here and there.

'Funny' thing about the arms business, as you pointed out, the merchants don't care what side they sell to. The best deals are made when you sell to both sides, like when during the 1960s when Pakistan and India pitted US and British tanks against each other. Big tank battles over there back then, lots of $ to be made by the West while brown-skinned youngsters fried in Western tanks...

twofifty · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: And Russia is our friend?

Dimitri wrote:

... Netheir the Russians or the Chinese are a threat to the free world. That is if we'd grow a back bone and tell the Chinese we will default on our debts if they don't fall inline with will do more economic damage to them then it will do to us.

As for the Russians if we simply moved into Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Georgia, and our other ALLIES who WANT us there to keep the Russians in check, instead of just talk about it. And shut off the Russian gas lines to let them know who is boss the Russians will think twice about all this.

Thats right to any Left Wing, Pro-Russia, Anti-US and Anti-Western people who may read this, the former Communist Block countries KNOW what Russia means and knows what comes with that. Russia has never been the "poor innocent" country they'd like us to think they are. The USSR MURDERED over 60 million PEOPLE in the "Union" from 1917 to 1987. To put it in perspective for you, that is 12 million less then all of the deaths in World War 2 combined or over 850,000 people a year.

My 2 cents.

Dimitri

The hilited parts of your post makes me wonder whether you realise that Canada and the US are two different nations??? Our national interests overlap, but are different. Yes, we have treaties about this and that, which makes for good neighbourlyness, but please do not forget that overall, most Canadians do not share America's imperial world view. When it comes to foreign policy, there seldom has been a 'we' - there usually is an 'us' and 'them' even though we are and remain allies.

As to the millions who died under Lenin, Stalin and their successors, Alexandr Solzeitnitzin's (sp?) book "The Gulag Archipelago" gives a fascinating insight into a totalitarian society. What struck me only upon reading it a third time is that most of those who ended up in front of firing squads or in camps had not done anything wrong (though they were convicted of various charges under the criminal code) other than being picked up haphazardly so that the police could make their prisoner and slave worker quota. Most regular citizens who ended up in camps had no idea why other than the concocted charges they were beaten to confess to.

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

twofifty wrote:

The hilited parts of your post makes me wonder whether you realise that Canada and the US are two different nations???

I do and I hope you realize Canada is in the same boat as the US as in many other western countries we all owe money to the same people and we all have the same common enemies. The quicker the average person realizes this the better.

Read the news lately ?? China and Russia is claiming OUR north, does that not make them a direct threat to our security ??

Last time Russia was a major enemy to us we kept selling them our wheat and didn't build our Armed Forces to be able to defend ourselves from them who would have gladly wiped us off the map. I think its time to take a active stance in the world to protect this great nation of ours, and stop hiding in the corner trying to please the enemy.

If I remember right, the west took a similar stand back in the mid-1930s and look what it ended up costing us.

Dimitri

twofifty · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: And Russia is our friend?

I thought it was Russia, Denmark and the US who are claiming our north...certainly their behaviour proves it is so. I was not aware that China also has a claim...care to provide details?

According to OECD and World Bank national current account figures published in 2003 by The Economist magazine, Canada was ranked 8th in terms of the size of its economic surplus. Japan was 1st, then Russia, Switzerland, Norway, Singapore, China and France The US did not make the list of nations enjoying an economic surplus.

The same publication ranks the US No.1 for the size of its national deficit. Second place was the UK, then Brazil, Germany, Mexico, Spain, Australia, Portugal, Poland, Greece, Turkey, Argentina, Italy, Austria, India.

Why such stunning figures, you might ask? Well, the value of exports as a component of the Canadian economy was 45.4% of GDP; the value of exports in the US economy was 11.2% of GDP.

What economic activities generate each country's GDP? In Canada, 31% came from industry (mfg. and mining), compared to 21.9% in the US.
Services account for 66.5% of the Canadian economy, compared to 76.7% of the US economy.

So then, these figures demonstrate that each country has developped its economy in different ways. The long-term likelyhood and implications in terms of being beholden to China (or Russia) calling our or the US debt are also entirely different...

Mind you these figures were published in 2003, before the US housing market went down the tank. The resulting contraction of US consumer spending (the folk shopping at Wal-Mart) should improve America's balance of payments.

I agree with you that these are dangerous times, but I refrain from calling those who wish to live their lives differently than mine 'enemies'.

History teaches us that yesterday's enemy sooner than later becomes today's ally, and vice versa... Relations between nations are not easily reduced to black and white good-guy vs bad-guy scripts. All nations compete in one way or another, that is when the multinational corporations allow them to.

Understanding comes from figuring out the players' motivations, from discerning what is from what appears to be. This takes time, discernment, discipline ... which is not the same as cowering in a corner.

Anyway, didja take that new assault rifle out for fresh air yet or has your boss kept you away from the range all summer?

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

China doesn't say much but they are active in the North (one of a few too many Olympics related websites came up in my search) and without factoring any natural resource claims they have the most to gain from a open free sea port to the Eastern side of Canada and the US as well as going to Europe:

www.nationalpost.com/t...?id=740629

As for your statistics they are good but remember 80% of our exports go to the US. If they go under our income goes with it.

Still haven't went out, will have the spare magazines I ordered soon and got a scope mount just need to decide on the scope now! Very Happy

Dimitri