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Seperation of Church and State?
Discussions run-amok, innane banter it all goes here
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:28 am    Post subject: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

What ever happened to the seperation of church and state?

They protest against anything that has to do with God and then try to "dictate" what is to be preached in church.

They want to take "In God We Trust" off of our currency and yet they want to force our Pastors to deliver thier messages.

They want "One Nation Under God" stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance and file lawsuits to have the "10 Comandments" removed from our courts.

Who do these IDIOTS think they are? ...and by the way, these are the same IDIOTS that want to take our 2nd Ammendment Rights from us. "They" know who they are and "They" need to be stopped ...NOW.

The Constitution of the United States Of America, which I gave 8 years of my life defending, was writen to protect the citizens of this great country against ALL of this B.S. Our founding fathers are doing backflips in thier graves.

There are too many men and women who have fought and died to uphold and defend our Constitution to have a bunch of "throw backs of the flower children" to just waltz in and try to re-word and change our Constitution to fit thier distorted views and beliefs.

I took an oath and swore to defend The Constitution of the United States Of America against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic...

Rant Flame Rant wtf Flag Flag Flag Flag Flag Flag Flag

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

You've confused me a bit. Are you for or against separation of church and state? Last I knew, separation of church and state was a constitutional guarantee and that guarantee is the basis of the above lawsuits.

The "throw backs of the flower children" is a problem. When you have idiots procreating, the offspring are even more stupid. You end up with lame brains with poor self control who then vote. What's going to bring this Country down is lame brains and lack of self discipline.
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

I've heard arguments that the separation of church and state was set-up so that the state would stay out of the business of the church. Not the other way, meaning hat the church could be included in the state. That's why our Pledge is "One Nation under God", our currancy states "In God We Trust", and pray is provided at state functions. The real question regarding the oath we took is at what point does an enemy become domestic or does change become a domestic enemy of the US of A?

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. The can be no govt. mandated religion here. I guess you could argue that removing all references to God from govt. facilities, etc. is mandating atheism and is therefore unconstitutional.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger wrote:
I guess you could argue that removing all references to God from govt. facilities, etc. is mandating atheism and is therefore unconstitutional.

Excellent Point!
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

Grumulkin wrote:
You've confused me a bit. Are you for or against separation of church and state?
Abviousely, I'm for it. Pelosi is trying to change it.

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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
I've heard arguments that the separation of church and state was set-up so that the state would stay out of the business of the church. Not the other way, meaning hat the church could be included in the state. That's why our Pledge is "One Nation under God", our currancy states "In God We Trust", and pray is provided at state functions. The real question regarding the oath we took is at what point does an enemy become domestic or does change become a domestic enemy of the US of A?


Again, the abvious is the fact that they are trying to change the Constitution. Pelosi wants to force our Clergy to deliver thier messages. In other words, the state is trying to influence the church. They want to remove all references to God from our money, our schools and our courts. This country was founded on Godly principals and they want to remove it. Do you not see the problem here? Then you have people like Billary Clinton wanting a GLOBAL gun ban by trying to influence the U.N.

Did a lesser issue not start the revolutionary war

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

I see huge problems with what Hillary and Nancy would like to do. I agree, there are things about the Constitution they would like to change. It would seem a bit contradictory though for them to want all references to God removed from our money, etc. and at the same time want the clergy to deliver their message.
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

Freedom of religion = each individual should be able to believe as they wish - with no harassment or coersion to the contrary.
some see "under God" addition to the pledge (it wasn't there originally) as a mandate that they believe in the Christian God. I can see where that might be offensive to non-Christians. The coins saying "In God we trust" could be interpreted in the same way.
It just isn't important enough to me to fight for or against. The Christians who think it is worth fighting for are a vocal minority who forget that if what they believe is ok, then for those who don't it has to be ok too.
That is what the first ammendment is all about.

The USA has never been a "Christian country" and it never will be. If you want to live in a Christian country then move to England. I am happy to let each person believe as they feel is right and do want they want as long as it is respectful to all others.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

Maybe I'm not understanding what your saying.........but roughly 80% of our population describe themselves as Christian based believers !!!

Which brings me to the question as to why we are letting a minority change our general principals ???

Someone doesn't like the way we in scribe our currency........... don't use it !!!
Don't like the under God thing.........Go find another country to pledge to !!!
The Ten Commandments in the court room........Live by the laws of this land and you'll never see them hanging there !!!
You dislike prayer in school, sporting events and state functions......Don't attend them !!!
Don't like the way the Constitution is worded...........That makes you the enemy.......foreign or domestic !!!

And by the way, since ya'll got me started !!!

WE SPEAK ENGLISH IN THIS COUNTRY !!!

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
Maybe I'm not understanding what your saying.........but roughly 80% of our population describe themselves as Christian based believers !!!

Which brings me to the question as to why we are letting a minority change our general principals ???

Someone doesn't like the way we in scribe our currency........... don't use it !!!
Don't like the under God thing.........Go find another country to pledge to !!!
The Ten Commandments in the court room........Live by the laws of this land and you'll never see them hanging there !!!
You dislike prayer in school, sporting events and state functions......Don't attend them !!!
Don't like the way the Constitution is worded...........That makes you the enemy.......foreign or domestic !!!

And by the way, since ya'll got me started !!!

WE SPEAK ENGLISH IN THIS COUNTRY !!!


BINGO!!!!!

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

Where do you get 80% Christian? What does that have to do with this not being a Christian country?
I do believe that we ought to enforce "American english" as the language of the country. I do believe in the constitution. I don't believe the pledge of allegience should ever have been modified.
The constitution demands the separation of church and state. It does so to ensure religious freedom - something our founding fathers fought and died for. Jews can be married by a Rabbi, and any other religion can perform marriages for their members. Its all the same to the government. That is not the case in England, Iran or Iraq. When one religion governs a population then it is THE ONLY religion allowed.
Which brand of Christian is right? Southern Baptist, Church of Christ, Methodist, Catholics, LDS, Jahova Witness? Which ones will run our country?
Prayer is allowed in the schools around here - The law says that teachers and administrators can't lead students in prayer - but they can and do have christian clubs in school. They do pray in school. Any student can say a prayer anytime he or she wants to - they just can't force others to hear or participate.

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:01 am    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

England has an official religion, the Church of England, but it's certainly not the only religion allowed. Norway's official religion is Lutheran but other religions can freely practice their faith. Most people in Iraq are Muslim but other religions are allowed and in fact one of Sadam Hussein's inner circle was Protestant. Probably 90% of Mexico's population is Roman Catholic but other religions are allowed to freely practice their religion and in fact in Mexico when a church is completed by law, it has to be deeded to the Mexican government and that includes Roman Catholic churches. Just because the majority of people in a certain country belong to a particular religious organization doesn't mean other religions aren't allowed.

Also, in regards to the God thing on coins, etc.; most religions have a belief in God so the only ones references to God would seem to irritate would be athiests and Satanists. In regards to athiests, isn't it interesting how passionate they can be about someone they allege doesn't exist?

If you want yourself or your kid to have religious training, then church or a parochial school is the proper venue for that. The public school system is not the place for religious instruction or for that matter training in the benefits of homosexuality, aka "alternate lifestyles."
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

This is from the Pew Research Center !!!


The US Census Bureau says about 76% !!!
www.census.gov/compend...0s0075.pdf

Searching the net I've found other charts that give roughly the same statistics.

In the 80's and 90's these numbers were as high as 86% +/-

Like I said, Maybe I don't understand what your saying but Christianity is by far the dominant religion in this country.

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Erny
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: Seperation of Church and State? Reply with quote

[quote="Grumulkin"]Roman Catholic churches. Just because the majority of people in a certain country belong to a particular religious organization doesn't mean other religions aren't allowed.

quote]
I would agree to the above statement with the exception of the Country of Malta, which i am a descendant of! Last time i looked, it has 365 churches, all Roman Catholics, no other religion exist or is tolerated in Malta as far as i know! Laughing

As for the rest of the debate, all i can say as an outsider is, that America has survived and prospered for the last four hundred years as is! It would seem to me much like Australia that it's Political correctness & all that goes with it, that's bringing down all this division amongst the people and slowly but surly eroding your civil & Constitutional rights!
(Evil exists, because good men do nothing!)

PS. Civil rights should only apply to the. "CIVIL!

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